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Original poster

School appeal procedural question

32 replies

SuperSue77 · 10/05/2023 06:25

Our appeal is one of 20 odd being heard over 3 days. We’re the middle day and have been told stage 1 will be in the morning and our individual hearing in the afternoon. Do you think that means they will have three stage 1 hearings, one each morning for all the parents being heard on that day? I wondered whether the parents across all 3 days might be invited to the stage 1 on the middle day, but presumably they can’t hear stage 2 hearings on the first day without having heard the school case beforehand? I just wondered if anyone was familiar with this way of running it? TIA.

OP posts:
NatM70 · 10/05/2023 20:40

Lougle · 10/05/2023 20:22

"However, they did say (and I double checked) that each appeal goes on merit alone and is not compared to any of the other appeals being heard, which is a comfort."

@NatM70 are you sure you understood this bit correctly? If the panel decides a school can admit, say, 5 children, and there are 20 appellants, they do need to compare the relative strengths of the case of each appellant in order to make a decision about which children should be admitted. They can't just admit everyone who has a strong case.

I can only state what I was told, and I did double check this, and the panel confirmed.
My husband was there and he witnessed this being said.
They stated each case goes on its own merit and is not compared to anyone else's.

The school has admitted up to 20 over PAN in previous years.
20 over, 10 over, and 15 over for current years 7, 8, and 9 respectively.
In Y10, an exception, they admitted 40 over PAN, but that was due to them increasing numbers due to demand.

The projected number on roll this year allows for 48 more places but that's for all years.

Lougle · 10/05/2023 20:22

"However, they did say (and I double checked) that each appeal goes on merit alone and is not compared to any of the other appeals being heard, which is a comfort."

@NatM70 are you sure you understood this bit correctly? If the panel decides a school can admit, say, 5 children, and there are 20 appellants, they do need to compare the relative strengths of the case of each appellant in order to make a decision about which children should be admitted. They can't just admit everyone who has a strong case.

Original poster
SuperSue77 · 10/05/2023 19:57

@NatM70 thank you so much for all this really helpful info!! It really is invaluable
and reassuring. It might help some
other so will tag them @Lor123 and @HighHeelsHurt

OP posts:
NatM70 · 10/05/2023 11:22

SuperSue77 · 10/05/2023 06:25

Our appeal is one of 20 odd being heard over 3 days. We’re the middle day and have been told stage 1 will be in the morning and our individual hearing in the afternoon. Do you think that means they will have three stage 1 hearings, one each morning for all the parents being heard on that day? I wondered whether the parents across all 3 days might be invited to the stage 1 on the middle day, but presumably they can’t hear stage 2 hearings on the first day without having heard the school case beforehand? I just wondered if anyone was familiar with this way of running it? TIA.

Hi @SuperSue77

I had our appeal yesterday, there were over 20, so stage one was heard yesterday morning and all parents who wanted to attend that did so.
Really use this to ask your questions and try to pick holes in the school's case (respectfully! - A lot of parents yesterday were quite rude or aggressive, which really isn't on given the panel do this voluntarily. I can't see that going in their favour, as you meet the same panel at the individual meeting.
You won't be allowed to ask any more questions re school at your individual hearing, so write it all down and ask at this stage. Or you can email them in.
I did email some in, and they were read out by the Clerk for me, but I had a few more which I did ask myself.
School couldn't answer some of my questions, but that was okay.
The panel retired, but came back pretty quickly to say the school had demonstrated a good case, so stage two would go ahead.
I think this is what they have to do, else if they'd dismissed school's statement, everyone would then have automatically been given a place.

I was super nervous, I did not think I would be able to do it, especially as hubby was not able to go with me due to his work commitments (I do suffer a little anxiety, but I knew it was my one shot so I was determined to stay and fight for my child).
I then had a 3.5 hour wait (no point driving home to go back again, so I found a coffee shop and set about reading through my files to refresh my memory!).

I then had my individual hearing, and because my written appeal was so comprehensive, we just addressed the main points - I think the panel did a silent phew at that point!
The panel were a delight, and really tried to help me.
They asked about my child so they could see him as a real human being, they asked about his strengths and what he enjoys.
We went over the main points, and I felt I was given enough time to explain clearly.
They had read my appeal and said they would read it again.
I did apologise for the length of it, as they said it's the most comprehensive one they'd ever had 😅
They seemed to really listen to me, and took on board the issues my child has, and I questioned if they thought I had enough supporting evidence from professionals, which they stated I had.
I look back and wish there are certain things I had said, but as long as they do read my written appeal, it is all in there anyway.
We had a bit of a laugh, and the panel members gave me instances of their own children who had similar issues to my son, and with the right help in the right school, they have flourished.
That was very kind of them to say so, and it gives me some hope that I might just win the appeal.

I made sure to thank them for their time, and was respectful.
And for taking the time to read through what probably equates to something similar in length to 'War & Peace'.

It wasn't nearly as stressful as I thought it might be, so all that worry leading up to it wasn't necessary, but obviously I didn't know that.

As there are face to face hearings today, and Zoom meetings tomorrow, the panel won't be deciding until Friday, and I will know one week later if I've been successful or not.
However, they did say (and I double checked) that each appeal goes on merit alone and is not compared to any of the other appeals being heard, which is a comfort.

So fingers, toes, and everything crossed.

I really hope this has been of some help to you, and I hope your appeal goes well.

PatriciaHolm · 10/05/2023 10:52

By the sounds of it, that suggests 3 stage ones, rather than 1. I've seen it happen both ways, but as autumnboys says, this way is often easier to manage and less disruption to parents.

Original poster
SuperSue77 · 10/05/2023 08:47

Thanks @autumnboys I assumed that is how it would work but I have heard of other schools having all parents in on day 1 for the stage 1 and then parents having to come in on other days for their stage 2. I suppose having three lots of stage 1 doesn’t matter as the panel hears all 3 and they’re unlikely to decide the school can take all 20+ places being appealed!
Thanks for the kind wishes, I am pretty nervous and it’s still 2 weeks away!

OP posts:
autumnboys · 10/05/2023 06:40

I imagine there’s one each day. The panel has to decide if the school has made the case that admitting more students would be prejudicial to the existing students before stage 2. If they don’t make the case, your child is automatically admitted. You have the right to ask questions of the school about their case, which could take a while with 20 families at once. Finally, it means you only need to put aside one day, rather than stage one on the first morning and your own stage 2 on the second day. Hope it goes well.