School appeal procedural question

@prh47bridge I agree and I know initially I had a really weak case which I did and I was one of the lucky ones who didn't have to go onto stage 2 and fight as things could have been a lot different.
Helped me a lot reading and getting tips from people like yourself on here so thanks for that.

@SadRach76 congratulations on winning your appeal. On what grounds did you appeal if you don't mind me asking?

We had ours a few weeks ago. The schools case was on the Monday and all the parents went to it. The individual cases were then heard Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday morning

@prh47bridge
I think the advice you give it invaluable.
Thank you so much.

I think it is fair to say that parents who come here for advice in preparing their appeal are more likely to win than those who don't.

@SadRach76 AMAZING!!!
So many are winning, this is fantastic!
I started to receive emails from the school the day after I found out, and gosh there are lots!
The school know who's been successful long before we do, so they're well prepared to bombard us lol! 😂

thank you feel free to drop me a PM if you need any help I had a page of questions xxx

@SuperSue77 @NatM70 OMG we only won, I cant believe it so happy! Thanks for all your kind words.
How long did it take for any paperwork to come through from school @NatM70 please xx

Thank you. That is very reassuring.
They did say I have enough evidence.
Just a waiting game now!

Thanks so much.

Thank you so much for your advice.

No bother, we're both saying the same thing 😊

Just remember that all panellists try their best to do what is right and nobody has an interest in denying places if the school can cope with more children. The panel will read all cases carefully and consider with great care which children, if any, can be granted places. I've sat on an appeal before where twin 1 was granted the place and twin 2 denied because their case wasn't quite as compelling as another child. It's taken very seriously.

@Lougle sorry, I meant you, I replied thinking it was @PatriciaHolm who had replied to me.
Thank you. I really appreciate you taking the time to reply to me.

@PatriciaHolm
Thanks so much.
I really appreciate you taking the time to reply to me and give such great advice.

Also, to reassure you, if you have strong evidence now to support your appeal, the fact that you didn't have that evidence at the time is not a problem. It is quite possible for a panel to conclude that the admissions authority didn't make a mistake in not admitting under the exceptional medical and social grounds but equally find that the evidence provided for appeal is strong enough to warrant a place at the school.

As Lougle says, waiting lists are completely independent to appeals, and we don't as panelists want to know where you are on the list, and we have no influence on it. Where you are has no influence on our decision as panels.

If your appeal succeeds, you get a place, regardless of your place on list. And if you fail, your place on the list is unaffected.

Waiting lists make no difference at appeal. You could be 50th on the list and have a stronger case than the person at no. 1 on the list.

I can see why you're confused. I don't think what you were sent is very helpful, nor what you were told.

Stage 1 of the appeal deals with whether the school is 'full', and whether they are so 'full' that they can't take any other child.

The school can fail at stage 1 because they are under their PAN (rare), or because the admissions process didn't comply with the Code (and it cost that child their place), or that the admissions process wasn't carried out correctly (and it cost the child their place).

At stage 1, no cases are compared against each other. Each case is decided, for stage 1, on its merits.

Stage 2 is used if there are more children who are 'successful' than the school can reasonably admit. It is in stage 2 that the cases of all the successful children are compared, to decide which children should take the places that the panel decided were reasonably available in stage 1.

This means that there could be many children who 'succeed' in showing that the school can take extra pupils that don't in fact win their appeal because of other cases being more compelling.

@PatriciaHolm
Thank you for clarification.
I wish they'd told me that yesterday.
They volunteered the information, and I just double checked that at the end.
Feeling a little less sure now, but I wasn't exactly that sure anyway!

Can I just ask, I was told that the panel would not see the waiting list.
However, this was one of the first things they mentioned.
My child is not near the front, but I am thinking that is because they went on distance alone at allocation.
Since application, I have more evidence from professionals who have given their opinions on what is best for my child and they name this school.
I suppose what I want to know is, are the panel swayed by this waiting list and where my child is?
Like I said, at application, I did not have the professional evidence I now have.
Do the panel take in to account the fact I now have strong evidence or will they take in to account where he was placed on the waiting list at the admissions stage please?

Well; what they have said is true, as far as it goes - the comparison, initially, is between the school's case and the child's case. So each appellant is looked at separately to start with.

However, if there are many appeals and this initial process results in more "successful" appeals than the school can accommodate, the individual cases must be compared.

So, for example, we have a school with 20 appeals - not unusual. Say the school's case on it's own is weak-ish, it's clear that they could accommodate more. And say when the panel look at the cases, there are 12 strong cases that each, individually, outweigh the schools case. The problem then is that we think the school cannot cope with another 12 in year 7. So having looked at each case on its own, we are now at a situation where we need to go back and compare, as we cannot let in another 12. As a panel, we decide the school can cope with 8 more - say one per form. So we compare the 12 to find the strongest 8. And we must do that.

@PatriciaHolm Thank you.
They stated twice that they don't compare cases against each other, so this is a little confusing indeed!
So, what they told me is incorrect?

I was also sent this prior to the hearing.

On the subject of comparison, the appeals code is quite clear - comparisons between cases cannot be made when deciding if easch case outweighs the schools case, but must be made if more cases outweigh the schools case than can be admitted - as Lougle says,. So I can see how confusion could arise. So comparison may not happen, if not enough cases outweigh the schools, but can (and must) if too many do.

"3.9 In multiple appeals, the panel must not compare the individual cases when deciding whether an appellant’s case outweighs the prejudice to the school. However, where the panel finds there are more cases which outweigh prejudice than the school can admit, it must then compare the cases and uphold those with the strongest case for admission. Where a certain number of children could be admitted without causing prejudice, the panel must uphold the appeals of at least that number of children."

Hi @SuperSue77
You're very welcome.
I know how much I worried and how anxious I was, so if I can try and alleviate that got anyone going through the same, I will do.
I don't know if we have won, but I feel so much better having gone through it and having the reassurance we got from the panel.
Good luck with yours!