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Original poster

School Appeal, I need urgent advice please...

70 replies

NatM70 · 03/05/2023 19:16

Slightly devastated!...
My son did not get in to our school of choice, so I am appealing on medical and social grounds.

He suffers with anxiety, OCD, intrusive thoughts and sensory issues.
Though he's had a telephone call with CAMHS, who do believe he's on the Autistic spectrum, with probable ADHD/ADD, he's no formal diagnosis as yet due to the delays and long wait times.

He's also been chronically bullied throughout school and all of the children who've bullied him are going to the one (local) allocated to him (which we did not list). He needs a fresh start away from them.

Our school of choice has a very strong mental health system in place, excellent pastoral care and a strong and effective anti-bullying policy.
We have visited the school of choice (as we did the one allocated, which my son took an instant dislike to and begged me not to send him there) - It is perfect for our son, and we are 2.8 miles away as the crow flies.
It is the nearest school to us with all of the support our son needs.

My son came out absolutely beaming, he loved it, and was like a different kid compared to the one who came out of the one he's been allocated.

The admissions team did not take in to account his mental health or chronic bullying, so we are having to appeal.
They went on distance alone, we're 2.8 miles as the crow flies. They did not take in to account his mental health or chronic bullying.

The school have as criteria, in order: 2 - medical grounds, and 3 - social grounds. These come above siblings, catchment, etc., but these were not taken in to consideration at application.

He will not be attending the school he's been allocated, as it is not very good - They have hardly any mental health support, and the bullying is so out of control that I know of many children who’ve been taken out and moved to other schools as this school simply do nothing to protect the bullied children. If we sent him there, it would not only further disadvantage my son, but would extremely detrimental to his mental health, which we simply cannot allow.
I emailed them on 10/3/23 to ask for their policies, but nearly eight weeks later, they've still not replied, which just really backs up my grave concerns about this school.

I have submitted a very lengthy appeal, and have some evidence (especially re bullying, as provided by his current school), but as he's had no formal diagnosis yet by CAMHS, they can't confirm autism and possible ADHD/ADD, even though they strongly believe he has these after a telephone appointment with us, where they got to speak to my son too.
I have supportive letters and emails to and from from his current school re bullying and him needing mental health support and pastoral care, a general one from our GP as she's only just become involved as school told me we didn't need to involve our GP, they would sort the referral to CAMHS out (wish I'd not listened as if we'd gone to the GP, as it turns out, it would probably have been faster), and his CAMHS referrals.

ACE tell me we have a very strong case to appeal, but after 19 full days of research, phone calls, collating evidence, note making, typing up the appeal, adding to the appeal, and so forth, I am now running on empty!
A very kind lady from ACE who regularly sits on panels told me if my son's case was being heard by her, she would be putting it in the 'upheld' pile, bless her. She made me cry, in a good way...I wish she could be on the panel!

I am so worried I will fail my boy.
He's desperate to go to this school, where his best friends are going.
Whilst friends in school isn't great grounds for appeal, for kids like my son, it is really important he has this network to transition.

I am over-thinking things, I am just a wreck at the moment.

I am so worried that I may have said something wrong in my appeal.
His current school were really holding back on information, and the deadline to get all the information in was a day away, so I had to say my son had been called names by teachers at his current school, and I thought that was the reason they were not so forthcoming with the evidence I needed. I just needed to show I was trying to get the evidence, but at that point, his school didn't look like they were going to send the reports of bullying he's endured.
I am now worrying that was not a very good idea to put that in the appeal, but it's a bit late now (even though the school state that all staff are aware of his problems, that was not the case at the time he was called names).
I believe he was misunderstood by some teachers who weren't aware of his mental health issues, and he's never had an apology from them - He's a good kid, he really is, especially given all he has to deal with.
I also had to say that the local allocated school have very little in the way of provison to help my son, and that they still have not replied with the information I requested eight weeks ago - I am worried I have been negative, and constantly worrying I've said something wrong in my appeal.

I am also seriously worried that I've sent in too much in the form of my written appeal and the little evidence I do have. I don't seem to have the ability to consolidate, and I am worrying myself stupid that the appeal is extremely long, and it will really get me off to the wrong start with the Appeals Panel before they even meet me!
I am just trying to fight for my boy, but I am now scared silly the appeal is so long that the panel will be seriously upset with me because of the length of it, and points mentioned above.

I really need advice - The hearing in on 9/5/23, next Tuesday.
Please can anyone help me?

And sorry for the long post (if you think this is long, you want to see the appeal!)

TIA

OP posts:
Postapocalypticcowgirl · 04/05/2023 07:23

Boomboom22 · 03/05/2023 22:13

When they say priority to medical they mean ehcp and when they say social needs they mean looked after children, ie in care or adopted. Adhd undiagnosed and bullying do not meet the categories so the school could not consider them at all. So don't go in saying they've ignored all this or even try and use it, make it all about why this school suits your child not their interpretation of policy which is standard.

This is not correct. In some schools, priority medical and social needs are a separate category to ECHP and LAC, usually the next highest priority. Not all schools have it as a separate category.

It covers things like a child having regular hospital treatment who needs a school close to hospital, rather than home, or a child with a physical disability who needs a school with minimal stairs. Social needs might cover something like a young carer who really needs a school close to home etc. So someone who may not have an ECHP, but does have an "exceptional" reason for needing a specific school.

It doesn't usually cover bullying or common additional needs where there's no ECHP, because these are not seen as exceptional, unfortunately.

I do think it's most likely correct that OP wasn't placed in this category.

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 04/05/2023 07:17

NatM70 · 03/05/2023 21:34

Does his current school have to do this for him please, or can I do this?

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You can do this, but it would probably be easier if his current school was on board?

CabernetSauvignon · 03/05/2023 23:40

You can apply for an EHCP yourself, you don't have to do it through the school. The first step is to apply for an EHC needs assessment, and the criteria you have to meet are simply that your child has or may have SEN, and that he may need support through an EHCP. For the second limb of the test, you need to show that your child is not making progress despite getting help at school, and that he may need support beyond what is available through normal mainstream resources. When you're looking at progress, it's not just academic progress that you need to take into consideration, but also progress in other areas such as social communication, motor and sensory difficulties, and things like anxiety and mental health.

SOS SEN produce some really helpful booklets on this - https://sossen.org.uk/services/booklets/

Booklets

https://sossen.org.uk/services/booklets

Redlarge · 03/05/2023 23:21

NatM70 · 03/05/2023 21:47

The allocated school may say they have policies in place, but they're just not implementing them.
All I can do is hope I suppose.

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It doesn't matter. If they have them they have them. So if another school does so do they

Original poster
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 22:56

PanelChair · 03/05/2023 22:52

Don’t listen to Boomboom22. They’ve got it completely wrong!

Phew, thank you! Still hope then!

OP posts:
Original poster
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 22:54

PanelChair · 03/05/2023 22:30

No. The theme for today (already discussed on another thread) seems to be people spouting ‘advice’ which is in fact nonsense.

Medical/social need (or however the admissions criteria phrase it) does not mean EHCP. Children with an EHCP will be placed at the school named on it, outside the usual admissions round. Nor does it mean looked-after children. Looked-after children and previously looked-after children are the first oversubscription category, above medical/social need and all other categories.

Where the school has a medical/social need category (not all do) it is intended for any child who has a particular need which this school would be well-placed to meet. There’s no definitive list but it could be (say) a pupil with mobility issues who needs a place at the school with a lift, so they can access the upper floors.

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Thank you for clarifying this. I do appreciate your time.

OP posts:
PanelChair · 03/05/2023 22:52

Don’t listen to Boomboom22. They’ve got it completely wrong!

Original poster
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 22:52

Boomboom22 · 03/05/2023 22:15

Also think you're fine op, your username is nat and I'm sure there are many many people named similarly with children going to school in yr7.

Thank you.

OP posts:
Original poster
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 22:51

Boomboom22 · 03/05/2023 22:13

When they say priority to medical they mean ehcp and when they say social needs they mean looked after children, ie in care or adopted. Adhd undiagnosed and bullying do not meet the categories so the school could not consider them at all. So don't go in saying they've ignored all this or even try and use it, make it all about why this school suits your child not their interpretation of policy which is standard.

Ah okay, thank you.
I was told by ACE that mental health grounds and bullying were strong cases to appeal.
He is believed to be autistic, I am trying to get evidence before the hearing.

OP posts:
Original poster
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 22:48

Facefortheradio · 03/05/2023 22:12

I appealed for my daughter a few years ago. It went badly. I felt like they were just going through the motions. Long story short, I pulled her out and home schooled her (pre covid) and stuck her on the waiting list for the 2 schools we wanted.

We loved home schooling (I work part time but juggled it) and she was offered a suitable place by Christmas. We would have home schooled as long as necessary but got lucky. There are options so don't put too much pressure on yourself and this appeal.
Good luck!

Thank you so much, that sounds really positive.
I am so happy that worked out for you.

OP posts:
Original poster
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 22:47

ImaniMumsnet · 03/05/2023 22:09

Hi @NatM70 - we've removed your name for you on your opening post but do let us know if we missed anything.

Thank you SO much.

OP posts:
PanelChair · 03/05/2023 22:30

Boomboom22 · 03/05/2023 22:13

When they say priority to medical they mean ehcp and when they say social needs they mean looked after children, ie in care or adopted. Adhd undiagnosed and bullying do not meet the categories so the school could not consider them at all. So don't go in saying they've ignored all this or even try and use it, make it all about why this school suits your child not their interpretation of policy which is standard.

No. The theme for today (already discussed on another thread) seems to be people spouting ‘advice’ which is in fact nonsense.

Medical/social need (or however the admissions criteria phrase it) does not mean EHCP. Children with an EHCP will be placed at the school named on it, outside the usual admissions round. Nor does it mean looked-after children. Looked-after children and previously looked-after children are the first oversubscription category, above medical/social need and all other categories.

Where the school has a medical/social need category (not all do) it is intended for any child who has a particular need which this school would be well-placed to meet. There’s no definitive list but it could be (say) a pupil with mobility issues who needs a place at the school with a lift, so they can access the upper floors.

Boomboom22 · 03/05/2023 22:15

Also think you're fine op, your username is nat and I'm sure there are many many people named similarly with children going to school in yr7.

Boomboom22 · 03/05/2023 22:13

When they say priority to medical they mean ehcp and when they say social needs they mean looked after children, ie in care or adopted. Adhd undiagnosed and bullying do not meet the categories so the school could not consider them at all. So don't go in saying they've ignored all this or even try and use it, make it all about why this school suits your child not their interpretation of policy which is standard.

Facefortheradio · 03/05/2023 22:12

I appealed for my daughter a few years ago. It went badly. I felt like they were just going through the motions. Long story short, I pulled her out and home schooled her (pre covid) and stuck her on the waiting list for the 2 schools we wanted.

We loved home schooling (I work part time but juggled it) and she was offered a suitable place by Christmas. We would have home schooled as long as necessary but got lucky. There are options so don't put too much pressure on yourself and this appeal.
Good luck!

MNHQ
ImaniMumsnet · 03/05/2023 22:09

Hi @NatM70 - we've removed your name for you on your opening post but do let us know if we missed anything.

Original poster
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 22:05

PanelChair · 03/05/2023 22:02

That post was responding to the previous poster who said they’d appealed on similar grounds, but had lost.

Thank you.

OP posts:
Original poster
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 22:05

AlphabetSue · 03/05/2023 21:57

You can just click the report button on your post and ask MN HQ to remove your name, best of luck with the appeal, you sound like a lovely mum.

Thanks so much, that's so kind.

Do I really need to remove my post? No one knows my last name or where I am?

OP posts:
PanelChair · 03/05/2023 22:02

That post was responding to the previous poster who said they’d appealed on similar grounds, but had lost.

AlphabetSue · 03/05/2023 21:57

You can just click the report button on your post and ask MN HQ to remove your name, best of luck with the appeal, you sound like a lovely mum.

Original poster
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 21:56

PanelChair · 03/05/2023 20:20

Each appeal turns on its own facts and is determined on the balance of prejudice, ie does the prejudice (detriment) to the child if they’re not admitted outweigh the prejudice to the school if they have to accommodate an additional pupil. The fact that you didn’t win an appeal raising apparently similar issues doesn’t mean that all appeals raising those issues will fail - much depends on the detail and (especially) the strength of the school’s case.

I haven't lost any previous appeals, this is the first one.
The school's case is as expected, and I have found quite a few things in there I can question.
My son's friend got in on appeal to that school with the same reasons as my son, but this is a baby boom year, so I think there are more appeals.
Fingers and everything crossed!

OP posts:
Original poster
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 21:51

PanelChair · 03/05/2023 20:13

Yes, I think a lot will depend on the circumstances in each appeal - and I would want to know why the approach many schools adopt of making sure the child was not in the same form group as their previous bullies was not sufficient - but panels can consider issues around bullying. Similarly, they can consider issues around mental health and pastoral needs but will need evidence of how and why the provision in the preferred school is better and relevant to the child, not just a general sense that the preferred school does things better.

Thank you for your reply.
I have really researched both schools and have documented everything in the appeal.
I hope I can get a letter from CAMHS in time, as I have strong evidence from his current school re bullying, and recommendations re his mental health along with his CAMHS referrals.

OP posts:
Original poster
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 21:48

Lougle · 03/05/2023 19:57

That's funny, because I've sat on several appeals panels where a child has been bullied in a previous school and it has been taken into account. I'm not saying that on its own it will necessarily win, and formal evidence is always helpful, but you can't say that it won't be taken into account by a panel, unless you're on it.

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Thank you.
I have strong evidence of this from his current school.

OP posts:
Original poster
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 21:47

Redlarge · 03/05/2023 19:49

They will tell you they, like all schools have systems in place to manage it. Which they will. I know its not what you want to hear but its not a winning appeal point unfortunately. They will say the same about sen needs.

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The allocated school may say they have policies in place, but they're just not implementing them.
All I can do is hope I suppose.

OP posts:
Original poster
NatM70 · 03/05/2023 21:44

Redlarge · 03/05/2023 19:47

Whilst im sorry you are going through this and think you have very valid reasons i would prepare yourself to send your child to the school you have been allocated. That or risk ending up in the only school that has spaces... the other side of the city in our experience.
Its incredibly hard to win an appeal and whilst i believe everything you are saying withiut evidence and formal diagnosis an appeal is very unlikely.
We never got any of our 5 choices and got the school no one wanted. I went through every appeal, even with documented concerns.
However, 8 months in and the school has been amazing for my son. Whilst friends have removed thier children from thier first choice schools. I hope it works out for you but i just want you to prepare yourself. Sending you loads of luck xxx

I'm so sorry to hear that, but I am glad the school has been great for your son.
I am very concerned, I have some documents from school and the GP, and CAMHS referrals, but I will try to get more.
And just pray!
Thank you xx

OP posts: