School has a very strong case

Here we go again. Someone who claims to be a headteacher, giving out terrible advice.

OP doesn’t need to prove there’s been an error, although she can certainly include that in her arguments for why her child should be admitted. She needs to persuade the panel that the detriment to her child if not admitted (which can include medical need but also anything else that’s relevant) outweighs the detriment to the school in having to accommodate an additional pupil. If she wins the appeal, she wins it for her child, not a child from the waiting list.

I went to appeal, unless it's a named school on a echp they will only be concerned with whether they have applied admissions criteria correctly (eg did they measure the distance to school correctly) and if for medical reasons this is the nearest school to them that meets their needs and no other school within reasonable distance can. We were offered a taxi rather than a place. Concentrate on what makes this school so suitable rather than trying to find faults

Remember that you can go on the wait list too.

I'd also try and find their net capacity range rather than the net capacity as when I brought this up last week at my appeal it caused a right shocker in the appeal and the panel were saying we have to check this out and have clarification on this, the school and local authority were saying it must be a mistake but I provided prove that it was on the council website for 2 years running with a range for the school of 1320 to 1467 which is a huge difference. So definitely try find your net capacity range for the school

I do sympathise with you OP, but the comments on here from people questioning classroom capacity are starting to annoy me. Demanding measurements of the classrooms?? For goodness sake. Let the school do it's job.

I have taught in a room that allegedly could take 34 students (according to my HT). However, he never did bother to come in to see what it was like trying to teach in there when only 15 double desks would fit in. Year 11 classes with many of the students over 6 feet tall crammed into the room - four of the desks having to have one person seat on the end. Not at all comfortable for the students.

In addition to this, what about the TAs? In one of my classes of 34 I had two students with one to one support - another two adults to squeeze into the room.

Classroom walls are not elastic. They cannot just squeezing in more pupils, more support staff.

Have they had to increase PAN this year as it is a bulge year?

I think it's worth bringing up the fact that although they do have a relatively large number of students who need additional support, it's below the local average, and so therefore other schools manage on the same funding arrangements?

As others have said it is probably worth asking about the classroom size. Maybe also ask specifically about the science labs? What is it about them that means they can't accommodate another student?

I'd also ask specifically for the size of their largest classes right now in any subject. To me, it sounds like they do go over 28, so you could ask how this is managed?

I remember your other thread about your daughter now, and it does sound like a really difficult situation.

I do think you should investigate applying for an ECHP - I've taught children before who have these solely for medical reasons.

@PatriciaHolm erm I have been through the appeals process. So I have some idea.

Yet more poor advice.

The only schools that matter are the appeal school and the allocated school. OP does not need to show that the appeal school is the only school that can cater for her child. She only needs to show that it is better for her child than the allocated school. The fact there may be other schools that could provide for her child as well as the appeal school is irrelevant.

This was me last week. I'm now awaiting the results of our appeal. The process has drained me and my mental health and to be honest I never want to do it again. No one takes this decision lightly. Good luck. The relief when it's over is immense

Oh and @Mousey23 appeals places going above PAN as excepted pupils go to those with the best cases at appeal, not to those next on the waiting list.

@Mousey23 Are you a HT at a Primary or Secondary?

Primary schools with ICS limits have stricter rules more similar to what you posed.

Secondary schools however often/regularly/sometimes go over PAN for appeals. It isn't about mistakes it is about whether the panel thinks they could squeeze some extra students in without too much impact compared with the detriment to the pupil.

@prh47bridge
I largely disagree. I'm posting as a headteacher.

There are two stages to an admissions process. Stage 1 is to ask whether a child should have been admitted - ie, have they improperly been denied a place. This needs to be won on medical grounds, in order for the OP's child to get in.

Stage 2 is where the school might come back with issues around PAN and would need to make a case that the detriment to the school is greater than the detriment to the child. If the OP wins the argument at Stage 1, then - in this instance - they are unlikely to argue that squeezing an extra child into a room is greater than a - necessarily extreme - medical detriment to a child. And the panel are unlikely to accept this. The legal ramifications of placing a child's health at risk would be too great.

The arguments about PAN won't be heard unless there is a presumption that the OP's child has wrongly been denied a place. Even if there was some way of winning that argument first, it doesn't entitled the OP's child to a place; just the next children on the list.

Unless this school uniquely provides something that no other school could ever possibly provide I'd say your appeal is unlikely. If her needs can he met elsewhere and to the same standard, then there is no compelling reason it has to be this school. Do you know where you are on the standby list? If some parents will be refusing as you've said?

Someone needs to ask them about classroom sizes. It doesn't need exact measurements, just the area. That will tell us how many pupils they can accommodate.

Oh sodding hell. Yes it's late and I have had wine, but, people - if you don't know about the appeals process, please stop dogmatically stating things. This is absolutely incorrect, as are a number of other posts.

OP should, absolutely, be looking to undermine the schools case that it cannot cope with even one more pupil. As panelists we know there is likely to be some prejudice to taking another pupil, but schools often over egg the pudding in terms of the implications and a good appeals case will often reveal that .

Why do people who evidently have no knowledge of the appeals code or how the appeals system works rush onto these threads to hand out terrible ‘advice’?

It isn't compulsory. Since the school's case is no longer attached to your post, I can't see what they've said on sizes. If they have stated sizes, the appeal panel will accept that without further proof. If they haven't, it weakens their argument a little.

If they’re going taking 28 kids per class look at the room sizes. You should have been provided with a plan of the school showing class room measurements. Google minimum square foot for (primary/whatever) schools and see if they literally have floor space for more kids.

Having now read your other thread, I'm shocked that they haven't taken her medical needs into account. It's a very specific thing you're dealing with. And as you say, OP, not every condition should require an EHCP, although it does sound like it might be worth getting one for her for the future. Best of luck with the appeal.