Page 2 | In Preparation for Appeal Panel Day

Hye000 · 2023-04-17T14:29:27+00:00

So… like the title states… im attempting to mentally prepare myself for the day of the appeal. Im just wondering (& hoping im not the only one). Do you go in (Teams or face to face) with a written script maybe summarising what you have already said in your written appeal?? Is that what previous people have done?? Or do parents just wait for any questions posed to them from the presenting officer or panel and answer those. Are we expected to re-iterate what we already said… I just don’t know what’s expected and don’t want to end up being flustered if I’m expected to have a long speech prepared and end up in a tizz!!! 🫠 Send help!! 🤦🏽♀️ if any of this makes sense and anyone has experience or similar worries please

Original poster

Hye000 · 18/04/2023 10:31

AvaCallanach · 17/04/2023 23:39

We won our appeal, based on SEMH. We spoke about risk factors and balances of probabilities and how the risk factors to her of not attending this school were very significant (older brother had severe depression, school avoidance, and she had effectively been like a young carer, we showed research demonstrating her risk of similar SEMH was more than doubled compared to peers) whereas the risk factors to the school were (we argued) more minor - they had slightly over pan in every year, had a bulge class of 30 over pan in one year, and still get good GCSE grades, plus Ofsted reports didn't mention overcrowding, and the school chose to teach some low set classes in sets of 14-20, meaning high sets could be 31 or 32 at their own choice.

On the day I wrote out a statement and read it aloud. It took about 10 mins.

This is very very useful! Thank you, sorry to be dumb… what’s SEMH stand for??

OP posts:

Cleoforever · 18/04/2023 08:06

Out of interest
what are these extra curricular activities that you are going to raise in your appeal op?

AvaCallanach · 17/04/2023 23:39

We won our appeal, based on SEMH. We spoke about risk factors and balances of probabilities and how the risk factors to her of not attending this school were very significant (older brother had severe depression, school avoidance, and she had effectively been like a young carer, we showed research demonstrating her risk of similar SEMH was more than doubled compared to peers) whereas the risk factors to the school were (we argued) more minor - they had slightly over pan in every year, had a bulge class of 30 over pan in one year, and still get good GCSE grades, plus Ofsted reports didn't mention overcrowding, and the school chose to teach some low set classes in sets of 14-20, meaning high sets could be 31 or 32 at their own choice.

On the day I wrote out a statement and read it aloud. It took about 10 mins.

Original poster

Hye000 · 17/04/2023 21:49

Takeachance18 · 17/04/2023 21:19

Does the allocated school have an area where children who need it can go for a quiet space? I had until a year ago thought most schools had it as standard provision, but isn't. Have you asked allocated school what they would do to support (if you have a professional recommendations for needing a space to eat and allocated school can't provide that, the panel can then consider the detriment of not being able to have the recommended space). If the allocated school can meet her needs other than existing peer group, you will find others will have similar arguments around peer group as anxiety is common and being separated from existing peers. Also good to highlight the extra curricular she can take part in. The social and medical is really difficult to prove, even with an EHCP, a lot of mainstream school would say they can meet most needs.

Thank you, useful points rather than some of the response I’ve been getting! I went to view the allocated school after allocation day and I questioned a lot of the things to compare to the preferred school and there were multiple things they did not have. The pastoral support are all also teaching staff unlike the preferred school who are on hand all day even during lessons for added support. They do not have a centre like the preferred school for those with additional needs. They have one dining facility that is one large room with one way in and one way out so she wouldn’t dare go in there when it’s full of kids she doesn’t know. The preferred school has a dining facility on each floor (3 floors) and they are open plan with no doors so she has better exposure to smells and having peer support she is more likely to eat. sadly this isn’t like most kids anxiety, the anxiety controls this eating disorder, most kids anxiety does not have the detrimental impact on them like this does on my daughter. My daughters anxiety takes away any ability to eat at all, she only eats 8 different foods, that’s it. I need to express to the panel the significant impact of the ED and anxiety isn’t like other kids. DD dietician feels strongly enough to attend the appeal (I didn’t ask her, she offered) so this should speak volumes.

OP posts:

Takeachance18 · 17/04/2023 21:19

Does the allocated school have an area where children who need it can go for a quiet space? I had until a year ago thought most schools had it as standard provision, but isn't. Have you asked allocated school what they would do to support (if you have a professional recommendations for needing a space to eat and allocated school can't provide that, the panel can then consider the detriment of not being able to have the recommended space). If the allocated school can meet her needs other than existing peer group, you will find others will have similar arguments around peer group as anxiety is common and being separated from existing peers. Also good to highlight the extra curricular she can take part in. The social and medical is really difficult to prove, even with an EHCP, a lot of mainstream school would say they can meet most needs.

IhearyouClemFandango · 17/04/2023 20:52

I think the difference is focusing on why the desired school is the right one (what it offers etc) as against why the given school is the wrong one. So you are appealing FOR a particular school as against AGAINST another. If that makes sense 😂

LadyPenelope68 · 17/04/2023 20:44

Hye000 · 17/04/2023 20:22

You have even lesser knowledge and experience than I do by the sounds of it

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And you are extremely rude.

Original poster

Hye000 · 17/04/2023 20:22

LadyPenelope68 · 17/04/2023 19:32

You can’t re-phrase it, as it doesn’t matter, it’s not a valid reason for appeal.

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You have even lesser knowledge and experience than I do by the sounds of it

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prh47bridge · 17/04/2023 19:52

Kvetching · 17/04/2023 19:25

In answer to the OP, rather than any details in subsequent posts, I took in my statement and pretty much read the entire thing out. I spoke for over an hour!

I wouldn't recommend doing that!

I've come across cases where the parent has simply said that their written case sets out everything and asks for questions. I've come across cases where the parents have gone into a lot more detail.

If I'm presenting an appeal, I will bring out the strongest points in the parents' case and maybe add some more detail to those, or try to get them across in a better way than is possible with just the written word.

prh47bridge · 17/04/2023 19:49

LadyPenelope68 · 17/04/2023 19:32

You can’t re-phrase it, as it doesn’t matter, it’s not a valid reason for appeal.

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I see the bad advice is back. Things the appeal school offers that are not available at the allocated school are very much valid reasons for appeal. That is exactly the kind of thing the appeal panel wants to hear.

PrepIn · 17/04/2023 19:39

Sorry - should have said good luck!

PrepIn · 17/04/2023 19:37

I talked through each of the points in my appeal. Not word for word from the document, but just explaining it and answered the questions the panel had. It did take a while and I felt guilty that I was taking so much of the panel’s time, but I wanted to include everything. The thing I found interesting is that none of the other parents had done as much research (or got the fantastic advice on here) so they were in and out really quickly.

Dacadactyl · 17/04/2023 19:37

Hye000 · 17/04/2023 18:21

Is siblings not in there admissions criteria then??

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Yes, but it is "siblings attending the school at the time of admission", by which time, DD will have gone to college.

LadyPenelope68 · 17/04/2023 19:32

Hye000 · 17/04/2023 15:42

@Cleoforever how would you re-phrase that in a positive way towards my child as unfortunately factually the allocated school does not offer some of the things that the preferred school does that are relevant to what my daughter already does outside of school and also from an academic point of view too

You can’t re-phrase it, as it doesn’t matter, it’s not a valid reason for appeal.

Kvetching · 17/04/2023 19:25

In answer to the OP, rather than any details in subsequent posts, I took in my statement and pretty much read the entire thing out. I spoke for over an hour!

prh47bridge · 17/04/2023 19:17

MeridaBrave · 17/04/2023 18:32

I have heard people winning on medical - one example I heard was that the prefered school was nut free and this was a child with a severe nut allergy. Can’t see extra curricular will be decisive. I heard a primary appeal that won - mum had a medical condition that she couldn’t drive and allocated school was impossible to reach by public transport so child had no way of getting there. Preferred school was walking distance.

I have been involved in cases where extra-curricular activities have indeed been decisive.

MeridaBrave · 17/04/2023 18:32

I have heard people winning on medical - one example I heard was that the prefered school was nut free and this was a child with a severe nut allergy. Can’t see extra curricular will be decisive. I heard a primary appeal that won - mum had a medical condition that she couldn’t drive and allocated school was impossible to reach by public transport so child had no way of getting there. Preferred school was walking distance.

Original poster

Hye000 · 17/04/2023 18:21

Dacadactyl · 17/04/2023 18:12

I've just fleshed out what I've said in the bullet points to be honest. So, there's no new information in my speech bit, just instead of 2 lines of info I'm saying it in a paragraph. DS has no medical needs and we missed out on distance. My DD is already at the school but in year 11 so I know a lot about what the school offers.

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Is siblings not in there admissions criteria then??

OP posts:

Dacadactyl · 17/04/2023 18:12

Hye000 · 17/04/2023 17:12

Thank you for sharing. My appeal was about 5 pages 😖 (panel are going to hate me! Lol) and I went with bullet points too as advised by the lovely professionals on here. I’m just not sure what to say in my speech to go in with. When I get stressed I tend to go over and over the same points especially when I feel they are really important (my mind thinks they just don’t get it so I’ll keep saying it!) 🫣 are your bullet points things you have already said in your appeal but worded differently?

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I've just fleshed out what I've said in the bullet points to be honest. So, there's no new information in my speech bit, just instead of 2 lines of info I'm saying it in a paragraph. DS has no medical needs and we missed out on distance. My DD is already at the school but in year 11 so I know a lot about what the school offers.

Original poster

Hye000 · 17/04/2023 18:00

turtlemurtle1982 · 17/04/2023 17:45

I agree with pp. you need to be very specific about what provision your preferred school offers in relation to your dd's medical condition. I can't think of anything that I wouldn't expect any school to provide as a reasonable adjustment, for example an early lunch pass, quiet room to eat lunch, an adult to check in, a quiet room to rest, modified timetable to account for fatigue etc.

I have tried to in my original appeal letter, I am not asking for advice as to whether the appeal will win. If you were in my position and had a child in my DD’s situation and knew all of the circumstances I have no doubt you would do the same. This eating disorder could hospitalise and kill my child… what else can I do but try everything in my power to prevent that?? There is no cure privately or on the NHS so do I send her to the allocated school where she will 99% likely stop eating or avoid eating. She is already extremely petite and has only recently gained enough weight to put her in the safe zone, it wouldn’t take much for her to be malnourished. She eats no fruits or veg of any kind.. non at all. She doesn’t eat anywhere enough calcium on a daily basis, she doesn’t drink enough. She can’t even be in the same room as family if they are eating certain foods.

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Original poster

Hye000 · 17/04/2023 17:53

unfortunateevents · 17/04/2023 17:33

0P, you've had some very good advice on this thread now – as well as some very dubious advice earlier on. While it is excellent that you have medical professionals supporting your appeal, unless I have missed it, you haven't said what exactly their letters say? It's not enough for them to say something along the lines of "Mrs X tells me that her daughter needs to attend this school, because…". What do you need is specific examples of what this school will be offering to support your daughter, I am struggling to think of examples relating to an eating disorder, but for example for a child with mobility issues a consultant might be able to say that the appealed for school is all on one level and so is much more accessible for the appellant than the offered school, which is three stories with no lifts. Or perhaps a child with frequent hospital admissions needs to be within a certain radius from the closest hospital which they offered school doesn't have or something like that.

However, I think you also need to prepare yourself and your daughter for the fact that your appeal may fail. I don't know from where she has got the idea that the offered school is so unsuitable and that she will refuse to attend if not offered this other school. At her age that would seem to be a position which she has arrived at because you have made clear your unhappiness about the school to her. I hope she's not being encouraged in that intransigent viewpoint because it's not going to be helpful down the line, you might already want to spend some time being more positive about the school at which she has a place.

That is absolutely not the case, I have not discouraged my daughter in anyway but the effects of her eating disorder and the details are the reason she will refuse the allocated school. It’s very long and in depth to explain in a message but there a large factors which affect whether she is able to eat and the anxiety that is largely raised when she is in busy areas such as dining rooms at school, she has sensory issues not just relating to food but these will impact her during many parts of the school day and has heavily relied on the social support she has received from her peers who she has been with since before her diagnosis who are aware of her issues. The preferred school lay out In comparison to the allocated school is a large factor due to the dining facilities and the fact that the preferred school have a centre for those with additional needs and reassured her that she could go there to eat if she was struggling in any way. My daughter is not defiant that she would refuse school just because she didn’t get what she wants. The immediate threat to her physical and mental health will be huge. The allocated school is expanding the dining facilities and this will pretty much ensure that my daughter will not enter there especially given that she has no peer support there so she will avoid those areas that give her the greatest amount of anxiety, thus potentially hospitalising her due to her already poor oral intake and that she is already not meeting her nutritional needs. It’s a lot more complex than what can be written on paper.

OP posts:

turtlemurtle1982 · 17/04/2023 17:45

I agree with pp. you need to be very specific about what provision your preferred school offers in relation to your dd's medical condition. I can't think of anything that I wouldn't expect any school to provide as a reasonable adjustment, for example an early lunch pass, quiet room to eat lunch, an adult to check in, a quiet room to rest, modified timetable to account for fatigue etc.

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 17/04/2023 17:35

They sort of did. It was a point we'd raised and her consultant had also raised it. We discussed it and the chap from the LA conceded that it could cause a serious issue and something similar had happened before. I don't know if anything else we said hit the mark but that was the reason given. Sorry I'm being vague!

unfortunateevents · 17/04/2023 17:33

0P, you've had some very good advice on this thread now – as well as some very dubious advice earlier on. While it is excellent that you have medical professionals supporting your appeal, unless I have missed it, you haven't said what exactly their letters say? It's not enough for them to say something along the lines of "Mrs X tells me that her daughter needs to attend this school, because…". What do you need is specific examples of what this school will be offering to support your daughter, I am struggling to think of examples relating to an eating disorder, but for example for a child with mobility issues a consultant might be able to say that the appealed for school is all on one level and so is much more accessible for the appellant than the offered school, which is three stories with no lifts. Or perhaps a child with frequent hospital admissions needs to be within a certain radius from the closest hospital which they offered school doesn't have or something like that.

However, I think you also need to prepare yourself and your daughter for the fact that your appeal may fail. I don't know from where she has got the idea that the offered school is so unsuitable and that she will refuse to attend if not offered this other school. At her age that would seem to be a position which she has arrived at because you have made clear your unhappiness about the school to her. I hope she's not being encouraged in that intransigent viewpoint because it's not going to be helpful down the line, you might already want to spend some time being more positive about the school at which she has a place.

Original poster

Hye000 · 17/04/2023 17:24

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 17/04/2023 17:20

I took copies of everything. I had an annotated version of my appeal statement to remind me to get things said. I think we all agreed they'd read my statement and they went straight to questions. It was OK. Like you we applied under medical need but that wasn't granted and we failed on distance. Our appeal was granted.

Do they tell you how or why your appeal was granted?

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