St Paul and King's

DH is involved in recruitment at a 'top' law firm. He says the 'top' schools mean nothing these days in terms of recruitment. They wouldn't be actively discriminated against but it wouldn't do them any favours. Schools have generally been removed from any CV's he sees anyway but says that candidates often manage to mention it in interviews!

@Caps0218 for oxbridge yes, but no body in the city bother to look at Westminster/SPS in your CV (do they ever put the highschool in the CV nowadays?) - speaking from my own experience in the city.

That is why I say nowadays attitudes towards secondary school is changing faster than university...

I’d really disagree. So much more emphasis on having “normal” people who can converse well with clients etc. Where I worked, anyone who went to Oxbridge or a top school was really pushed as they were concerned that they lived in libraries and wouldn’t survive in the real world.

I know many lawyers for one who would actively mark down a candidate who's attended a big name school (or university). It's all about diversity now.

not sure..loin the City, in law firms, in big corporates…the top 2 schools still stand out on a CV. It’s a prestige thing, has been and always will be….

attitudes towards secondary schools are changing faster than the attitudes towards the stereotype towards university.

It’s an interesting one since for several years, kings Wimbledon has been the TOP boys and co-Ed school.

This year, St Paul’s boys is the top boys. But, for whatever reason, KCS tends not to shout its achievement, so maybe people don’t always realise how it has been the highest achieving boys’ school (several on this thread don’t).

I do agree that for name recognition it is Westminster, St Paul’s, and outside London, Eton (the latter is much further down the table though) and rugby (even further down). Of course, if you want the very best school, you want St Paul’s girls…

Anyway, there is nothing in it between any of 3 you mention. I made our decision based on LOCATION. being near the school is such a great choice, for friendships, for the Saturday sport, for the after school events. (Saturday school, too, for Westminster; though boarding may be the answer at that school, to get around the location issue.)

But these schools are all incredibly over subscribed, so manage your child’s expectations. They are ALL fast paced, and ALL full of bright kids. I would have hated it! If your child just soaks up information, enjoys learning, is super fast at maths, has brilliant vocab, grammar etc, all are great. Also it helps to love sport, and to be quite alpha, or extrovert; though there are introverts who are bad at sport at all!

ref oxbridge, this is NOT the be all and end all (I’m an oxbridge grad, so I’m not being mean about oxbridge) but attitudes are changing and there are many other places that might suit my (very quick!) son better (I’m not being biased, he won an 11+ academic scholarship, to be clear). Anyway, if he chose one of those other places (eg LSE) rather than say oxford, that would be one less person on the school’s list. Those lists don’t always tell the full story.

Please don't be very worried - they're all great schools! The differences in attainment are tiny. You need to see which your ds gets into first, but honestly if offered all three go for the one closest to you - it's madness to do a long journey if you have one of them close by.

There might be perceived pecking order of prestigious for these schools, especially in East/South Asia world where the obsession is further exaggerated by the International education agent/tutoring business.

However, unlike Oxbridge over other universities (sickingly) , the "pecking order" of these private school badge bear zero value for the kids life in 10 years time. The name of KCS/Westminster/SPS/Winchester/Highgate etc will just be blended into the same school category for the previlige few by the society (and Eton is even a "dirty" word now).

In the long term it is the education experience for the kids that matters not the name. Parents have the privilege to choose between these private schools should focus on that but not the useless short-lived prestigious .

@cantkeepawayforever

Does it produce ‘leavers who have the best exam results’ or ‘leavers who are well rounded, balanced, happy, kind and generous, and have good relationships with each other, adults and the opposite sex’?

Very wise words...( all of it but particularly this)

I think ‘which is top?’ begs the question ‘what for?’

Does it have the best ‘absolute’ results? Or the best ‘progress’ for each pupil?

Does it have ‘the best admission statistics for one or two universities’ or does it have ‘the best reputation fir getting every child onto the best fit next step for them’?

Does it have ‘the best results in a few subjects’ or ‘the widest possible spread of subjects, all taught well’?

Does it have ‘teachers who drill children to get the best results’ or ‘a very high proportion of inspiring and exciting teachers’?

Does it produce ‘leavers who have the best exam results’ or ‘leavers who are well rounded, balanced, happy, kind and generous, and have good relationships with each other, adults and the opposite sex’?

If you like everything about the leavers a school produces (not just their results and destinations), you like the staff that you meet, you like the feel of the school as you go round, your child is excited to join it and you feel yourself to be in alignment with the values of the school, then go for it. It is ‘the best’ for you.

There are many good independent schools. Not forgetting City, UCS, Highgate etc….

But St Paul’s and Westminster, have been…are….and will always be the top 2.
They are internationally renowned, sought after, have the prestige. It’s just what it is, they are the hardest to get into as well.
they may not be right for everyone, but nevertheless they are the top 2.

Agree. Often, parents focus too much on school ranking vs what the school is really like. You need to ask deep questions at school visits and talk to as many people as possible in order to find out what the school is like and whether it matches with your child's character.

@ChocChipHandbag Thankyou for that very thoughtful post which encapsulates exactly why we chose the school we did for our DS. It’s not the destination, it’s the journey.

I withdrew from an interview at St Pauls a few years back because of the behaviour and attitude of the students I saw.

I had never heard of the school until I saw the job ad, I didn't realise what type of school it was.

I honestly wouldn't worry OP. We live close to KCS so both my DS, and later on my DD, went there. If we'd lived closer to SP maybe they'd have gone there. At the age of 7 there was no way we'd have added a complicated school run in to get to SP so DS1 never applied.

Both DS1 and DD are at Oxford and DS2 is going to Princeton. But most importantly they really enjoyed life at KCS - academics, sports and music. Could SP or Westminster have been 'better'? I honestly don't know but we've all been very happy with KCS.

But it’s not about which school culture the head prefers, it’s which one he thinks will suit your DS best. You need to ask him that question, or speak to his class teacher.

Also, what I said about school environment above was not designed to drive you to to look for another set of objective metrics/third party opinions on non-academic factors. And no school will be a terrible fit for him so please don’t stress about that. What I was getting at was that you should visit those you can, put him in for a range and then you can tour them post-offer and get a feel for them then. My friend just did this and they ended up picking a school that was way down their initial list of preferences as it just had the right feel.

@ChocChipHandbag , bravo!!! It is a personal fit of school and DC. Not academic only but sports, dramas, music and school trips etc.

Please try not to forget that Senior School is a place where your boy will spend his teenage years, a time that can be tough and socially/emotionally difficult. Don’t think of it as a means to an end in terms of “best results to get into best university”. Think of it as choosing the best possible environment for him to spend 6 years of his life and be happy. An academic child will do well academically anywhere, but an academic child in an environment that makes him truly happy will absolutely flourish.

To put this in perspective- I went to an underperforming state comprehensive school in a small town. I was bright and ended up going to Cambridge. My life/career since then has put me firmly in the same earning bracket as the kind of families who send their kids to independent school, and I feel entirely comfortable with them socially. Many of them were privately educated themselves so don’t know any different.

My husband is also very bright and we are pretty sure that DS has got the genes to get good A levels no matter where he goes to school. However I don’t want him to be like me and find himself bullied by the cool kids for wanting to learn, putting up with disruptive and antisocial behaviour or having limited opportunity for drama and music, mediocre teachers who don’t look beyond the curriculum and minimal sports facilities. I hated school and could not wait to get out. My husband went to a rural single sex private school and doesn’t want our DS to be educated in a single sex environment because he did not enjoy it.

So we are sending our son to a particular school not to make sure that he gets good results, but to do our best to ensure that those 6 years are happier for him than they were for us. No guarantees, of course, but we are using our luxury of having a choice as best we can.

I don't dislike it! It's obviously a very good school! Wasn't right for DS but that doesn't mean I think it's a bad school. As I said, I know happy boys there.
I was just trying to point out to a 'very worried' OP that there is more to schools in London than the 3 she mentioned and that they are all broadly similar in terms of academics, outcomes etc.

@photoshop although DS will go to LU, I do admit that though there are boys who choose LU than SP, it is not more than a few. We like coed and that’s our choice and we believe it is better for my boy. Most will choose SP if they have offers from both. I don’t know why you dislike it so much.

@veryworriedmum - don't be worried. There's lots of schools. Have a look round them. Decide whether you want him to go for y7 or y9 if your prep goes up to that.
Have a think re Co-Ed or single sex.
Location is very important- somewhere your DS can travel to independently.
Most people sit for around 5 independents. Just make sure you have a good spread.
One of the 3 you mentioned may be perfect for your son but if they're not or he doesn't get in it's not the end of the world!
Take his views into account as well. My DD in particular was adamant she wasn't going to a particular school.

I know more than a few boys who chose LU over ST P this year.