General Appeal questions

Again, I agree with prh47bridge.

I think you’ve done the right thing in not telling your son about the allocated school or the appeal. Generally, the child’s preference for a school doesn’t carry weight at appeal because it’s about need and the balance of prejudice (detriment). What is unhelpful is when parents encourage the child to be upset at not getting a place at the preferred school and then try to use that as leverage at the appeal, because the panel can’t take the child’s upset into account unless it touches on issues of prejudice.

Thanks @prh47bridge that’s reassuring. We want to do the right thing by our son. I’ve recently attended an 8-week parenting course for parents with children who are AuDHD and they stated that these children are generally 1/3 less emotionally mature than their peers - that would put my son’s maturity at about that of an 8 yr old and to be honest it feels right! We really don’t feel it’s right to burden him with the decision as to where he goes to secondary, even though for some children it’s absolutely right to involve them and seek their opinion/wishes. His twin sister was very clear about where she wanted to go, and fortunately she has got a place there (he can’t go as it is all girls). Neither would it be right to delay his start to secondary though, he is really bright and needs the academic stimulation.
Thanks again prh47bridge for all your advice and input.

I haven't come across panels asking about the child's view. Unless there is evidence of a mistake, the panel's decision should be entirely about the balance of prejudice. Unless the child's view of the appeal school or the allocated school is relevant to that in some way (which is unlikely), it shouldn't be a factor.

Yes, this is definitely something that can happen when budgets are tight. Successful schools are often discouraged by the LA from increasing their PAN if there is another local school that is undersubscribed. Even academies, which can increase their PAN without LA approval, often feel morally compelled not to. But schools that want more students can get them by not robustly defending appeals.
This definitely happens in my area, and probably accounts for why there seems to be a suspiciously high number of ex-governors and ex PTA members from the undersubscribed school sitting on local appeal panels. They obviously have no sympathy for parents whose main appeal motive seems to be avoidance of the undersubscribed school.

I have another question for all those with appeal panel knowledgable. How do you think the panel will view the fact my son knows nothing about which school he will go to? He does not know he has been offered a school nor that we are appealing for another one. He’s only ever looked round two schools, both independent. Because of his ASD he gets very anxious around lots of people and big settings. The one independent school was large and he found it overwhelming so we didn’t apply and the other was a small, nurturing one which he liked, but who turned him down ☹️ We then applied to another 2 local, small, nurturing independents who also said no.
He has said he doesn’t want to go to a big secondary school like his friends (in a concerned way, not a bratish way if you get what I mean) so we don’t want to make him anxious about it all and would rather tell him where he is going once it is finally decided. I just wondered what you thought panel might make of this as I believe they often ask what the child’s a view is - will they view this negatively?

Not necessarily - more students= more money. If there's< 10 appeals and the school knows they can take them, what's the benefit to the school of turning them away?

The school I work at is oversubscribed, the head would like to accommodate an extra class per year (would be a squeeze but probably possible) but this involves negotiations with the LA and trustees. Currently, my understanding is the school doesn't really put a case if anyone appeals!

You don't have to submit all your evidence with the appeal form. There will, however, be a deadline for submitting evidence. If you miss that and turn up to the hearing with additional evidence, the appeal panel has three options. They might simply accept the new evidence, or they might adjourn the hearing to allow everyone time to absorb the new evidence, or they might refuse to accept it at all. Which option they take depends on the nature of the new evidence and on the appeal panel you get.

I think most parents assume the LA are made aware as our LA keep the waiting list until all the allocation rounds are done. I doubt it's deliberate but you have made a good point and l'll do that if we get a place before the hearing.

By the time the second stage meeting comes round we may have got a place from the waiting list(currently no.13).

If you (or anyone) does, please do officially withdraw from the appeal! I can't count the number of times I've sat twiddling my thumbs waiting for a parent who doesn't turn up, but who hasn't notified the LA that they aren't...!

16 would be perfectly possible for a very popular, oversubscribed school - I think my LA has at least 2 schools which need 4 days for appeals this year.

I think the one am appealing to has multiple appeals. 1st stage meeting is early next month with the 2nd stage in mid July. There is almost a 2 month gap between the 2 meetings with the second one the week before schools close for summer holidays. By the time the second stage meeting comes round we may have got a place from the waiting list(currently no.13).

150

I’ve been told provisional dates are 22-25 May and am now wondering if that means they actually plan to hold them across 4 days (I initially assumed it was a range from which they’d choose a day!) and so maybe they have around 16 of us appealing.

@sylentwidnes can I ask what PAN your school is? The one I am appealing for is 240. My daughter’s school, which is also 240 had 19 last year, but only 7 the year before.

... some may withdraw if they got a place in the second round of offers. 🤞

... though, thinking about it, they will probably schedule part 1 for the first morning for all applicants, then do the 12 "part 2" sessions over the next two days, then have their deliberation on the afternoon of day 3. (I don't have the detailed timetable yet).

My school has 12 appeals scheduled over 3 days, so 4 a day.

For academies presenting officers are usually senior leaders, or members of the school's governing body.

How many appeals are heard in a day? For Academies who presents the case for the School?

I doubt it was the same one - my example was a few years ago when I was shadowing for my current role. That one wasn't presented by the Head, it was the colleague I was shadowing.

The Academy where the Head said they had spaces and everyone won was more recent, but I wasn't actually present as the LA was not involved.

Yes, if you convince the panel that the school can take more pupils, that will be taken into account for all cases, not just yours. That is one of the reasons the panel aren't allowed to make any decisions until they have heard all the cases.

@JM231 Not sure if you've seen this post https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4772369-school-appealswaiting-list?reply=125359829 but @schooladmission says that one year a school put a really weak argument forward and so panel agreed all appeals that year "even the one where the Mum said that said she really wanted X Catholic school down the road but thought she may as well appeal for this one too". So everyone benefited on that occasion. That one made me intrigued though as a friend of mine appealed for the school I am now appealing for, and was successful, but wanted the Catholic school down the road - I asked her about the appeal and she said the Head was really weak on the day - so that got me to thinking that maybe it was the same school! I hope not, as they may have tightened up their arguments as a result!

Just as PatriciaHolm says, the number of appeals won and lost in previous years tells you almost nothing about your own chance of success. A common misunderstanding is that an appeal being allowed in the past creates a precedent for allowing yours, but it doesn’t work like that. Each appeal is determined on its own merits, according to the balance of prejudice.