Please or to access all these features

Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

appealing place

35 replies

SadRach76 · 02/04/2023 18:38

Hi, just after some advice so a bit of background info my son has attended a primary school for the last 7 years , this school is not local to us and my eldest also attended who is now 17.
Reasons for choosing this particular school was the fact I was working close by when my eldest started reception and as he was settled I never moved him. When my youngest now 10 was due to start E was in yr 6 so made sense to have them together and its a good school.

So my eldest carried on to the local secondary school and left last July. When I had to apply for A to attend I obviously put this school as my first choice but slipped up and only put one choice as I really didn't think they would be an issue with him getting a place!
I was wrong he has been given a place within my local council at a school 6.9 miles away!! The school we requested is in fact 9.4 miles away but we have arrangements in place with friends and family available for childcare, and we have done the school runs for the last 13 years this way.
I haven't accepted or declined the school offered but if I'm being honest they is no chance he will be attending (its a horrific school with a bad history I have friends who have worked there and have been told avoid at all costs)
The main issue is yes we live a fair distance away and I totally understand we fit no criteria for this school but my son knows nothing else he attends school in Stokesley, plays football for a local team there and spends 99.9% of his time there basically he comes home to sleep!
I immediately contacted the council to ask about his position on the W/L and was told he was 4th out of 6 I thought fab bound to be some movement but since found out 5 children in his current class didn't bother to even apply for a place and have now bene added to the w/l meaning he is now 7th out of 8!
I have sent an appeal form in and am awaiting a hearing date. I totally understand how difficult appeals are and I am appealing on the grounds of social and how his mental health will suffer if he has to attend elsewhere. He is the only one out of 37 children in his class not getting a space.
I don't have any doctors notes as he has never suffered majorly with anxiety until now!
He does'nt go anywhere on is own so to expect a just 11 year old to have to get a bus on his own 6.9 miles away with no knowledge of the area or not knowing a soul terrifies me.

Just after some advice on what other evidence I could use to support my appeal, if anyone has been in a similar situation.

Thank you

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Bluevelvetsofa · 06/04/2023 18:17

Have you investigated to see if there are any other schools that you can get to, that have capacity?

Is there anything at all that the school you want offers, that isn’t available at the school you’ve been offered?

I agree that you’d be wise to accept a place, even if you don’t want it and won’t send your son there, so that the LA cant wash their hands of you because they’ve offered and you’ve refused.

Lunde · 04/04/2023 12:10

When I had to apply for A to attend I obviously put this school as my first choice but slipped up and only put one choice as I really didn't think they would be an issue with him getting a place!

Do you mean that you only put one school on your application? The is obviously a dangerous strategy as if oversubscribed the authority has no other preferences to consider and will allocate whatever is available/less popular. Have you looked at other schools and applied to go on waiting lists?

SadRach76 · 03/04/2023 20:11

@TeenDivided if it comes down to it we will make it work the best we can.
@QuillBill I have no intentions to mention homeschooling at the appeal and I would never try to use that to sway the panels decision!!
@PanelChair Thank you for that I don't think any one would excuse a parent of been hysterical for wanting to homeschool and in the same breath I really don't expect a panel to think oh god we need to give them a place as we don't want a child homeschooled!

IT is what it is and what will be will be , I will fight as much as I can that's all I can do

Thanks everyone

OP posts:
PanelChair · 03/04/2023 18:43

I would never assume that a parent saying they would homeschool was hysterical or trying to blackmail the panel. I would assume they were making a choice that was lawfully available to them. (The flip side of that is that any parent who thought the panel would allow the appeal to ‘save’ the child from being homeschooled would probably be disappointed).

QuillBill · 03/04/2023 18:18

Whatever you do, don't say that if you don't get into this school you are going to homeschool at your appeal hearing, You don't want to come across as trying to blackmail the panel or as a hysteric,

Just stick to the facts about the school and why it's better for your son as advised by the knowledgeable posters.

I found the actual appeal quite difficult. Make notes of what you need to say in case you find it difficult on the day.

TeenDivided · 03/04/2023 18:13

I think saying you will home school when you work isn't viable - how will it work?
How will you cover all the different subjects including techs and science practicals etc?

You lose nothing by getting on the waiting list for any school that is better than the offered one.

SadRach76 · 03/04/2023 18:11

@LIZS I know 5 children didn't apply as I was informed by the office at school. I wouldn't have just assumed that as of course they could have been in the same position as us. These children live near the school but I know of others who are a lot further away who have managed to get in too.

OP posts:
SadRach76 · 03/04/2023 18:07

HI no it's not and I do feel very much to blame but like I say I cant turn back the clock. None of the local schools are appealing to us so we are going to just sit tight until the hearing, we are seriously considering home schooling him if this doesn't work out. The only other school we have considered also is heavily oversubscribed and we not in catchment for that one either. Wish we could pick up the house and move ha ha .
Thanks @CatOnTheChair for your advice much appreciated and @PanelChair I understand what you are saying and its an awful situation to be in , I work in a school myself so know how hard it is to win an appeal based on my grounds but I need to fight this for my son , hardest thing ever having to tell him he had not got a place.
Just thought may have been some success stories on here or someone had any tips other than the obvious ones stated. Thanks everyone

OP posts:
SadRach76 · 03/04/2023 18:01

wasn't been rude at all just felt like I was being told the obvious if people feel there is nothing I can add to my appeal then I would rather them just say that rather than repeat your appeal is extremely weak repeatedly I totally understand my appeal is weak but I am being totally honest here. If we don't manage to get a place then we are seriously considering homeschooling as we feel that strongly. I know everyone will have their own opinions on this and that is fine.
Thanks everyone for your advice we will see what the appeal brings

OP posts:
Lougle · 03/04/2023 15:36

@SadRach76 nobody is saying that you shouldn't take your best shot at appeal. They are saying that if you appeal on the grounds you propose, you are likely to lose.

Put your energy into detailing all the things you like about your preferred school, and whether those things contrast it from your offered school. For example, are there clubs that are offered? Do they offer a language that your child would like to learn? Do they have support for children with emotional needs (if that is relevant) or a gifted and talented programme (if that is relevant) that outshines your offered school?

Give the panel an argument they can work with.

PanelChair · 03/04/2023 14:38

No, living in one LEA area and appealing in another makes no difference. All appeals depend on the balance of prejudice, in other words whether the prejudice (detriment) to the child in not getting a place outweighs the prejudice to the school and the children already in it in having to accommodate another pupil.

I know some posters are not comfortable with being told that their arguments are weak but sometimes it has to be said. An appeal is not a magical way of unlocking a place at a school which is already at capacity; appeal panels work within rules and have to assess the balance of prejudice, as just mentioned.

LIZS · 03/04/2023 14:28

SadRach76 · 03/04/2023 14:08

5 children from his class dint bother applying so Im assuming some of them have gone onto waiting list yes!

That was my point. You are assuming they did not apply rather than being in same situation as you.

CatOnTheChair · 03/04/2023 14:22

@SadRach76 I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I really think you should also get on the wait list for something preferable to the offered school as well.
Is everything in Redcar a no-go as far as you are concerned? Moving out of town:
Freebrough has just had an excellent ofstead - although it is very marmite.
I think Bydales will be full, but worth looking into.
Huntcliff got an awful inspection before Covid, but look beyond the headline outcome and see what you think. It's small and nurturing.
I think I'd go Huntcliff-bydales-freebrough as a preference.

For those offering advice on appeals: does it change anything that the OP is living in one council area, and appealing for somewhere in the neighboring council? Is there anything that should be done differently?

SadRach76 · 03/04/2023 14:10

Thanks I'll continue with my appeal as it is then and take it from there!
Thanks everyone

OP posts:
Marchsnowstorms · 03/04/2023 14:09

You'll need to find reasons this school you want offers him something the others can't. Nothing else is likely to work

SadRach76 · 03/04/2023 14:08

5 children from his class dint bother applying so Im assuming some of them have gone onto waiting list yes!

OP posts:
PettsWoodParadise · 03/04/2023 14:05

OP you have been given advice e.g from PanelChair about how to consider strengthening your case. It is a bit rude to come on and say you haven’t had any help. We can’t write your argument for you only you know your child and what interests or aspects there are at the school you are applying to that might not be at the school your child has been offered.

You know the school you are hoping for well as you’ve had another child go through it. Think about unique clubs or activities, specific subjects they the school offers that the other one doesn’t etc. Add those to your statement.

Zwicky · 03/04/2023 14:01

LIZS is right though. There can’t be several children from his class on the waitlist and 100% of his class (except him) having a place.

Your strongest chance of getting a place at a school you want is to apply for different schools that he has a chance of getting a place at. Presumably every school within 6 miles was full on offer day, or he would have been offered one but they may not be full now. Find out which schools which are acceptable to you may have a place. He may end up first on the list at your closest school. There may be places in schools further away which you like but we’re not offered a place at because you were offered your closest school. Your appeal is extremely weak, but the last list is extremely short so he may end up getting a place at some point. In the meantime get him on other waitlists.

SadRach76 · 03/04/2023 13:52

Thanks everyone, I posted on here to ask for advice on if I could add anything to strengthen my case, which I know is weak.
@EmmaGrundyForPM I didn't apply for any other schools as I said in my post I never had a doubt he wouldn't get in if I was honest and felt like your post was not helpful at all!!
@LIZS not sure why you think this I have no reason to lie, He is the only one out of 37 children as we are the only ones living out of catchment area. And my reasons for not applying to a local school is simply the fact he knows no one and the schools have not got a good reputation.
@CatOnTheChair yes we must be and as we live under R&C council we have been offered a school in Redcar.

Like I say I came on here to ask for advice not to actually be told my appeal is weak, I already knew that , I know I've messed up with only putting one school down but I cant turn back time!
So thanks to everyone who has taken the time to reply but some of these comments are not what I needed to hear truth or not! Wish I'd not bothered asking now

OP posts:
SadRach76 · 03/04/2023 13:41

Thanks for the reply, I totally understand I have a weak case and I posted on here to ask for advice if I could simply add anything extra to strengthen my case.

OP posts:
CatOnTheChair · 03/04/2023 10:27

I'm guessing you are local to me.
If you want Stokesley, what have you been offered? LJ? Outwood -somewhere??There is a bit of a bulge year going on right now. Is there anywhere else you'd consider that isn't already full?

I'd accept the offered place. Rejecting it doesn't make a different offer more likely, and just leaves you open to needing to provide education yourself - either homeschooling or private. Then look at where else you might consider, whilst appealing for the school you want. I think your reasons are weak tho. Is there anything else Stokesley offers that the offered school doesn't other than familiarity?

mondaytosunday · 03/04/2023 09:34

My son was rejected from all four (one was a religious affiliated school so applied for separately) of our nearest state primary schools as they were kind of clustered together so we didn't live particularly close to any of them (SW London). But my late husband was a lawyer and went at it. He requested from the council statistics about how many families within X metres from our road that got their first choice place. He requested details about the furthest distance from each school that accepted kids lived. He argued that if student A lives closer to school 2 than student B lived to their closest school (1), then student B should get priority over student A, even if school 2 was the closest to student A, all else being equal (sorry this works better in a diagram).
Anyway at the hearing the poor council school rep was completely bamboozled by the argument - he had no answers or reasonable replies. However, appeal was denied, as though the panel admitted that they heard what he was saying and it was logical, the schools followed the correct criteria so the decision stood.
My husband expected this result, but wanted to make a point that children that live not quite close enough should not be disadvantaged as there were no reasonable alternatives. All the four we applied to were rated by Ofsted as excellent. The one we were offered was much further away and rated fair (I don't think that rating exists now, but I know it was one above 'inadequate').
Good luck to you but if the criteria for allocating places was followed you don't have much chance.

LIZS · 03/04/2023 09:02

Surely he is not the only one of his class if others are on wl. It seems odd you did not apply to a more local school and presumably got allocated the nearest one wherever was left. There are never any guarantees where distance is a decisive criteria and you live further away. Is it normally undersubscribed? Accept the one you have been allocated and go on wl of any others you would be happy with.

PettsWoodParadise · 03/04/2023 07:55

7th on waitlist isn’t too bad in my area, even for sought after schools. It does depend however on size of school intake and other options parents applying to that school might have. As you’ve discovered however you can still go down waitlists if others in a similar position to you start looking round and put my names down on the school you are aiming at.

As others have suggested do the same for other schools as a plan B. As you now see of those 8 on the waitlist, some may be on other waitlists and will come off ‘your’ waitlist if they get a higher preference.

TeenDivided · 03/04/2023 07:18

Find any closer schools that you prefer and get his name down on their waiting lists.