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Original poster

SE London Independents - difficulty to get into?

38 replies

Selonmum · 02/04/2023 02:23

Hi All

I have a DD in year 5 (state school) and we are hoping to send her independent for secondary. We are looking at Alleyn’s, St Dunstan’s and Colfe’s. We haven’t done any tutoring but, she has been using atom.

We have been quite relaxed about the whole 11+ exam process but, I’ve heard lots of stories from this year that have started to stress me out! Many children did not gain places at Colfe’s and St Dunstan’s - I had always considered these as not too tough to get into!

Does anyone have any first hand experience of the above schools and the difficulty of gaining a place, has it got harder?

If you applied, I’d really appreciate your input - did you get offers and if you used atom the type of score your DD/DS were getting? Any general opinions on the schools also welcomed.

Thanks!

OP posts:
Original poster
Selonmum · 02/04/2023 12:49

Thank you, I think we may consider a tutor as well to help with written element.

OP posts:
Original poster
Selonmum · 02/04/2023 12:48

SamPoodle123 · 02/04/2023 09:46

What scores is your dd getting in the mock tests for Atom? If you email Atom directly you can get feedback of what scores to aim for depending on the school you are targeting. In general Atom says aim for above 120. But some of the more competitive schools 125-130 for Atom. I am not sure about the schools you mention, so I would ask Atom directly. But my dd got into all the schools she applied to and her scores ranged from 130s-142 for Math, 120s-130 English. Her weakest was verbal and non verbal and she would get 115-125 scores. She is going to G&L in September. She is also in State school and only started to prep end of May in year 5. So all is not lost if you are not hitting the target scores. Are the exams all online for the schools you target? If there is written, I would get a tutor to help guide you for written. Or buy some mocks online that give you the written answers so you can see what the responses the schools are looking for.

Thank you for this. I did email and they gave me the average score needed but, wasn’t too sure how reliable this is as I know some DC this year who had great Atom scores but no offers…

DD is scoring 130-135 maths, 118-125 reasoning and 112-119 English.

Our exams are mixture of online and written. We have the 10 minute a day CGP books which she does and we will practice some papers over Easter. I’ll see how she does on written and reevaluate if a tutor is needed.

Well done to your DD on her offer at G&L!

OP posts:
Original poster
Selonmum · 02/04/2023 12:43

Lingar · 02/04/2023 09:03

We did not take St Dunstan’s as We do not like their old building (they use it as main secondary education). The new building is only for primary. And they are facing the busy road of Catford... As I heard, St Dunstan’s and Colfe’s are similar levels.

Oh I didn’t realise this was the case re old building, thanks

OP posts:
Original poster
Selonmum · 02/04/2023 12:42

Lingar · 02/04/2023 09:01

I think I can help you answer as my DD tried the majority of your mentioned schools 11 Plus, she has ranked the difficulty as below from hardest:
Alleyn (tough math) - Eltham- Bexley Grammar- Kent Grammar- Newstead (many kids passed Bexley but can not get in Newstead, they only test NVR &VR)- Jags(my DD said super easy) /Colfe's/Bromley High-Blackheath High
However, my DD is a master of NVR and VR, good math, and ordinary English. She usually got a full mark of NVR.
Private schools also look at other skills, especially Eltham. People use Colfe’s as a backup for not getting in grammar. If you can pass Grammar schools should be fine to pass good independent schools.

Thank you, this is really helpful. Our DD seem similar academically. Maths and reasoning she finds easy and scores well. English she is probably slightly above average but despises writing - so, I think we’ll need to work on her creative writing.

I think we are keen to go for co-ed but this again narrows our options if we don’t want her to commute too far.

Hope your DD got the offers she wanted.

OP posts:
busyparent35 · 02/04/2023 12:13

We did the exams this year. What you say on it being a bit of a tough year is right I think, but I wouldn't stress out, we got what we wanted. And sounds like our DC similar to yours - in local state primary, did atoms and bit of light tutoring in autumn (for exam technique rather than anything else).

Anecdotally, so take this as you wish, its seems this year there was quite a big gap between Alleyn's and JAGS/DC - know quite a few people who got into latter but not former. And Dunstan's has got tougher - known a couple who didn't get into there but did into DC. Don't know about Colfe's.

HawaiiWake · 02/04/2023 10:45

We did 11+ for London secondary and we found schools do give sample papers. The one we found really helpful was Manchester Grammar school because unlike London schools they gave answers to their sample papers and it is free.

Daydreamscometrue · 02/04/2023 10:01

Atom is useful for the online element of assessments. We signed up because he was sitting exams that were computer based and wanted the practice. I don't think the maths is representative of the level of difficulty for some of the very selective schools. Not sure they actually have an Alleyns example on there but there is a Dulwich paper which was easier than the actual exam. I think a combination of Atom and written papers work well and a tutor if affordable.

SamPoodle123 · 02/04/2023 09:46

What scores is your dd getting in the mock tests for Atom? If you email Atom directly you can get feedback of what scores to aim for depending on the school you are targeting. In general Atom says aim for above 120. But some of the more competitive schools 125-130 for Atom. I am not sure about the schools you mention, so I would ask Atom directly. But my dd got into all the schools she applied to and her scores ranged from 130s-142 for Math, 120s-130 English. Her weakest was verbal and non verbal and she would get 115-125 scores. She is going to G&L in September. She is also in State school and only started to prep end of May in year 5. So all is not lost if you are not hitting the target scores. Are the exams all online for the schools you target? If there is written, I would get a tutor to help guide you for written. Or buy some mocks online that give you the written answers so you can see what the responses the schools are looking for.

Lingar · 02/04/2023 09:03

We did not take St Dunstan’s as We do not like their old building (they use it as main secondary education). The new building is only for primary. And they are facing the busy road of Catford... As I heard, St Dunstan’s and Colfe’s are similar levels.

Lingar · 02/04/2023 09:01

I think I can help you answer as my DD tried the majority of your mentioned schools 11 Plus, she has ranked the difficulty as below from hardest:
Alleyn (tough math) - Eltham- Bexley Grammar- Kent Grammar- Newstead (many kids passed Bexley but can not get in Newstead, they only test NVR &VR)- Jags(my DD said super easy) /Colfe's/Bromley High-Blackheath High
However, my DD is a master of NVR and VR, good math, and ordinary English. She usually got a full mark of NVR.
Private schools also look at other skills, especially Eltham. People use Colfe’s as a backup for not getting in grammar. If you can pass Grammar schools should be fine to pass good independent schools.

AnotherNewt · 02/04/2023 08:35

Alleyns is always a bit of a toss up - every year there are clever DC who don't get offers, and surprising others who do. Yes, they all have to pass the exam to get to the interview stage.

I can't really help with how to compare Atom scores. But wanted to remind you that interview matters as well as exam

TownCrier · 02/04/2023 08:32

(NB she gets anxious in exams and underperforms on the day. But surely that is common at 11+?)

TownCrier · 02/04/2023 08:30

Also interested in this. DD top half in maths, top quartile in English/VR. And yet she was refused places in schools where, historically, "selective" was a polite fiction. Her teachers are as baffled as we are.

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