SE London Independents - difficulty to get into?

Oops sorry zombie thread!

My DD sat the 11+ this year. She found the Colfes papers tough as it was the only one she sat (creative writing aside) which wasn't multiple choice. However despite not finishing either paper she ended up with an offer! She also has an offer from Blackheath High. She sat JAGS but no offer (it was our stretch school, so it was mostly to be expected). She didn't sit St Dunstan's. With Atom you can set your target school and it tells you how on track your child is in all 4 elements. But for Colfe's definite practice away from the computer (writing answers in long hand!) is required.

How did it go, if you don't mind me asking?

We only applied to St Dunstans (privately) in addition to state schools, so only experience of that one. He was offered a place, which we ultimately declined for a state school for financial reasons - we did like the school though.

He was offered a drama scholarship, so not sure if that helped tip the post interview process, same with other kids who got offered various scholarships.

We did two things before - Bond NVR online tests, as I think this is the bit that is very difficult as you don't practice it ever (in our state primary anyway) and like everything you need some practice at it. He then had around 8 sessions with a tutor in the 2 months before the tests and that was it. He is academically good at Maths particularly.

We'd also applied for a bursary which we got in part for anyone wondering if that puts you at a disadvantage.

They do some group interview questions, and I also wonder if having something like 'The Week Junior' or some source of child friendly news information might be useful to discuss in such sessions.

Good luck!

I think the interview gives an opportunity for the school to see if the child is the right fit for them. The introduction of the lesson experience has allowed them to see if a child works well as part of a group or takes over.

with interviews, the kids do need to be positive about the school - quite common for a kid aiming for dc/alleyns/jags to get rejected at a 'back up' school because they weren't enthusiastic enough at interview.

group interviews are more and more popular too.

Atom etc are ok but really it's the maths/english papers that are key. Think most schools publish sample papers- so it's worth printing them off and encouraging your child to have a go. Intense tutoring isn't necessary but calm exam practice is as this will be quite different to anything they've experienced before?

Yes, very similar story here. During 11+ we did ramp things up a bit, but DC had had experience of independence earlier and since. Obviously, you want some adrenaline kicking about but it really shouldn't be the case that kids are so anxious they don't perform to their optimum nor feeling physically ill/sick.

I would apply to at least 3-4 schools. A couple parents mentioned they wish they applied to one more as their dc did not get any offers. However, they also applied to quite competitive schools and did not realize how difficult it is to get in.

During the interview stage they are looking for the right fit for the school. They want dc that will thrive at the school and get involved. At least this is the impression I got. My dd does a lot of activities/sport outside of school and when they asked her about hobbies etc each school made comments similar to "We have that at our school, you would enjoy doing that at our school etc"

G&L mention they are looking for well-rounded girls, with interests outside the academic curriculum. Of course, maybe not all schools are looking for the same. But the ones we applied to, we got the impression they want dc that have a variety of interests. It also seems the same for the schools we are now looking at for my son.

This might explain why my dd did not feel stress. I never really looked over her homework. I always just let my dc do their homework on their own (as soon as they were capable) and just let them hand in whatever they did without looking at it. Of coures I would have to remind them to do their homework or tell them to do it right now. I have always been very relaxed with their schoolwork. However, once I realized dd would do the 11+, I did get her to look over her Atom mock tests to see why she got things wrong, so she did not make the same mistakes. Sometimes, I would sit with her to make sure she understood. I was also relaxed with their schoolwork because they were doing well in school. If they struggled with something, I would of course sit with them to help them go through things.

Re exam stress, I think there is definitely a lot of temperament/genetics that play a part.

However, much of it stems from Fear of Failure (look it up). This can be traced back to overprotective/controlling parents.

I strongly believe that lots of parents mean well and want to encourage by always focusing on 'trying your best' but that this then turns into 'I'll just discuss/show you what you can do with this homework' (as the parent just can't let their child go into school with a piece of homework they feel is way below the standard required or that the child is capable of producing).

I've come across some wonderfully behaved and academic children like this. Always feeling you have to be 'the best' or turning in the 'best' work can develop into perfectionism which really is unhealthy, often leads to anxiety and certainly does not build resilience.

Yes, it does make a difference the temperament of the child. Some are better able to cope then others. Some just cope with exams better. Also, there is the issue if your dc just has a bad day etc. This is what makes the 11+ so nerve wracking (for me anyway!). I was so worried if my dd would catch a bug before the exam or interview. When she had a headache the night before the first exam I thought oh no no no! But thankfully by morning it was gone and all well.

I know some people think it's great that schools interview all the dc, but I don't agree with this...esp if in the end they still have to pass a certain mark to get in. It can make the dc more hopefully and like you say, fall in love with the school more.

I think it depends on the temperament of the child more than anything. It's frustrating as I was very similar to DD at her age, and of course I matured, and learned to concentrate, and got straight As.

To make it even worse, one of the schools mentioned on this thread followed the assessment with exciting "experience lessons" which had the effect of lifting all DD's anxiety and making her fall in love with the school she had just flunked the exam for.

@TownCrier I forgot to mention, that of course there are extremes in the other direction. I have read/heard of cases where children vomit from being so nervous for the exams/interviews....which is terrible. Children should not be made to feel this much anxiety. Perhaps some schools are better at making dc feel at ease. I felt that was the case at the schools my dd applied to. I am hoping it will be the same for my ds. He is a little more sensitive.

I guess it depends really how your dc perceives the situation. My dd took all exams at different schools. She felt welcomed at all. She enjoyed it. Same with the interviews. She really enjoyed the process and the interactions she had with the teachers. She understood the situation and how competitive it was. But she liked that aspect. She is from a state school though, where she feels no pressure. It might have been different if she was in a prep school.

The effect, though, is that schools end up sorting children for how placid they are.

Any reasonably switched-on DC will have figured out that these are high-stakes, sliding-doors-moment assessments. A 10/11 year old doesn't have the emotional toolkit to deal with that.

Schools all have some variation of "we'll do everything we can to make your child feel at ease" but in our experience that's not true at all. They shove you straight into a big exam hall, ask questions that are deliberately too hard (so they can cherrypick the prodigies), and then then get annoyed if you find it all a bit much.

Then, if you're lucky, you get marched into an interview with a teacher you've never met, who has five minutes to judge your entire personality.

It really depends on the dc. I think there are many that get anxious. But then there are some like my dd who enjoyed doing the exams and interviews.

Sorry, that wasn't clear what I was referring to - the new building at Dunstans

Colfe’s is easy, and they only test English and Matwithh. The paper was not hard... We turned down the offer. Maybe we applied for Music and art scholarships. Although they did not invite us for an audition, perhaps help for the application. It looks like boys more prefer Colfe than girls and harder to get in than girls, I guess.

The new building is actually mainly for STEM subjects for the senior school. Though junior (and sixth form) is also in there.

Just curious, what scores were the dc getting on Atom that did not get offers and what schools? For us, it was reliable. My dd got into all 4 schools she applied to. My advice would be to work on the English, as it needs to be a little higher, or that might be the reason an offer is not made. Your dd has plenty of time though, so it should be fine. I do know of a dc for example who had good math scores of 130s, but then English was 105-110 (English not first language) and unfortunately, did not make it through. I was worried about my dd verbal and non verbal. But in the end she was okay. Phew!

My ds is in year 4, but his exams are all written. So I am a little nervous. His handwriting is so messy!

Yeah, if you have good NVR, normally, math is good. Top schools are more like math kids. You can find local creative writing courses. We only prepared a few months. We got Jags, Newstead, BH and Colfe’s. But we go for Newstead. Eltham was tough to get in even though we passed the test but they are looking for super academic and super other skills ( not just good, outstanding). Co-ed is harder than single-sex schools to get in. If you are in the state primary, I would say top 3 in the class or pass Bexley top 180 will definitely get in these private with a good academic scholarship. I just use grammar as a comparison.