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Original poster

How important is a modern foreign language GCSE for Higher Ed?

58 replies

cool4cats2020 · 28/03/2023 22:56

DD is in yr 9 and about to make her choices for GCSE options. We were told at parent's evening a couple of weeks ago that a foreign language gcse was no longer compulsory. But the options form was sent out last week, and one of the options is to choose between French or German. She's already been doing French for 3+ years, so would seem foolish to switch now.

I'd assumed all the kids were given the same list of options, but found out today that they aren't - the school decides what to offer each child (sounds like it's based on their ability as much as anything else). And not all kids have been forced to pick a foreign language.

We had a open evening tonight to find out more about the options/subjects. Explained to the Head of Year that DD really isn't keen on French, and there are multiple other subjects in the other choice groups that she'd prefer to study. HOY frowned a bit but said that it was perfectly possible to do another subject in place of a foreign language (as some other kids are being offered anyway) if she really wanted to. He explained that a foreign language is desirable for the academicly strong as it's needed for the EBacc, and some top universities require a foreign language GCSE for admission. But then he said that's only really oxbridge and most others aren't so critical about it.

So just how important is the foreign language for university admission requirements? I had a quick look online and didn't see any that mentioned it, just the usual gcse maths and english plus A levels. I'd never even heard of this EBacc thing until today. When I went to uni 25 years ago I flunked gcse french and it was never even mentioned, but I still got into a decent uni to study a science masters. But maybe things have changed since then?

Background: DD is thriving at school, very studious and getting good reports in all subjects, in top sets and predicted strong grades. French is probably her weakest subject, and she doesn't sound to be enjoying it at all. She's not really decided on a career path, but is keen to study triple science gcse and citizenship (seems to be a blend of politics, law and related stuff, so could be quite interesting and genuinely useful) for her other options. So she's not shying away from academic subjects or looking for easy options.

If we shuffle the options and lose French it looks like she could take Creative iMedia instead (not an actual GCSE qualification, but supposedly equivalent). She's keen to do this and I'd be happy for her to as well, would be good to get a bit of a mix with all the other academic subjects that she's chosen, and maybe even put an interesting twist on her CV. She might even decide on a different career path in this area.

So my only concern is would a lack of foreign language hold her back in the higher ed admissions process? (I doubt she'll be looking at oxbridge, but you never know)

OP posts:
Original poster
cool4cats2020 · 29/03/2023 01:29

clary · 28/03/2023 23:20

So she is thinking of Eng x 2, maths, science x 3, iMedia and Citizenship? That's only 8, is there a further option? Eight inc triple science is not loads. If that is the total, then I would certainly consider keeping a door open with something needed for post-16 study (eg history, geography, RE, DT, art, drama, music, PE, comp sci).

Thanks for all your replies, very useful. Sounds very much like she won't suffer for dropping French then, because she's never likely to want to do a MFL at A level or degree! It does sound like the school are primarily pushing the brighter kids to do MFL for their own EBacc performance reasons and steering the less able kids away from it.

The school's compulsory subjects are English (& English Lit), Maths, Double Science, PSHE, RE and PE. I'm pretty sure PSHE and PE aren't GCSE's though, and I'm guessing RE isn't either because it's also listed in one of the options. So that's 5 GCSE's in the compulsory subjects, then they have 4 option groups, giving a further 4 (although imedia is only an 'equivalent to GCSE', as are some of the others).

Geography and history appear in a couple of the groups, and the school are saying doing at least one of those is compulsory. DD is doing well in both, but wants to take geography.

First option choice is between French, German and Spanish. DD currently does French, and they won't allow switching to Spanish now, only German. DD does't want to do any of them.

Second choice is the only group that has triple science on offer group, so chosing that eliminates some of the other options and pushes geography and history to group 3.

Third choice has to be geography because that's the only one left with that and history available. But this group also has iMedia in it.

Fourth choice is between Citizenship, Drama, Music, Art, Photography, and Media Studies. DD likes the sound of Citizenship (she'd already mentioned it before she knew what the options choices looked like). She doesn't enjoy music and drama lessons, is quite arty but seemed disinterested in taking gcse art or photography.

So the four choices as offered, she would take: French, Triple Science, Geography and Citizenship.

iMedia is a bit of a wild card really. Don't think DD had even noticed it until we saw the display at tonight's open evening. As I said, she is quite arty, but does a lot of that on computer, so it seems to suit her quite well.

But with the options she being offered, it's not possible to chose iMedia and triple science because one of those groups has to be a humanity. Tonight they told us that she could instead ask for geography in option 1 instead of French (as some other kids have it on offer there, so it should fit the timetable), and then that free's up option 3 to do iMedia.

Of course it could all be academic anyway - because the school aren't guaranteeing any combination of options will actually run for certain. DD has to state a first and second choice for all 4 options, so worst case could end up with second choices throughout.

As an aside, it's funny how DD's preffered subjects are so similar to my own 25 years ago. I haven't coached or pushed her in any direction at all, but I chose geography over history, would've done triple science if offered, and definitely would've dropped French if I could have. I remember going for a job interview after GCSEs, and being asked which result I was most proud of. Without even thinking I said the D I got for French because I found that the most challenging, despite getting As and Bs for everything else. I guess the unintentional subtext was that I must've found all the other's piss easy!

OP posts:
jamimmi · 29/03/2023 00:13

Dd school tried this. Unfortunately they picked the wrong parent. Dh was a teacher and we knew form DS uni application nowhere wanted a language unless that was your degree. Dd is top set but haded written French as dyslexic. Unlikely to get more than a 4. Ask the school to justify why picking a subject the student will do less well in is an advantage to the student. DD does history and geography as well as triple science, maths and English and rs. So 10 plus btec dance. On target for nothing lower than a 7 majority 8/9. Offers from both local top performing 6th forms for 4 competitive a level. Lack of MFL not mentioned.

WomanFromTheNorth · 28/03/2023 23:35

It's not important unless you want to study languages. I'm a former MFL teacher; languages are hard and therefore unpopular so many schools have a policy of trying to force the more academic kids to take a language as it looks good for Ofsted. The Ebacc is dead in the water. If your dd doesn't want to take a language then she shouldn't.

SheilaFentiman · 28/03/2023 23:23

“No, no university requires GCSE MFL (unless your degree choice is MFL, or maybe classics, obv) - not even Oxford. Or Cambridge. Or UCL which did (sort of) at one point but has now dropped this requirement.”

This.

clary · 28/03/2023 23:22

Sorry (and sorry to keep posting haha) but when I say needed for post-16 study" I do not mean that you need geography GCSE to study anything post-16; just that if you want to study any of the subjects I listed for A level, you pretty much need a GCSE in them. No A level requires GCSE Citizenship (as it's rarely offered IME) so it might be a bit of a waste if she might later fancy A level history or drama or DT.

clary · 28/03/2023 23:20

So she is thinking of Eng x 2, maths, science x 3, iMedia and Citizenship? That's only 8, is there a further option? Eight inc triple science is not loads. If that is the total, then I would certainly consider keeping a door open with something needed for post-16 study (eg history, geography, RE, DT, art, drama, music, PE, comp sci).

clary · 28/03/2023 23:15

some top universities require a foreign language GCSE for admission. But then he said that's only really oxbridge and most others aren't so critical about it.

This is nonsense and it makes me so angry that school staff are still peddling it. If they don't know and cannot be bothered to check then they should just say that!

Schools can insist that students take MFL GCSE if they want (DS2's year, 2019 exams, had to take it) but it can be counter-productive if students do less well than they might in another subject.

No, no university requires GCSE MFL (unless your degree choice is MFL, or maybe classics, obv) - not even Oxford. Or Cambridge. Or UCL which did (sort of) at one point but has now dropped this requirement.

Yes, a broad range of GCSEs is a good thing (this is what the ebacc, which is purely a measure for schools) is designed to promote. But MFL is not for everyone and some students will do better with another subject. And I speak here as an MFL specialist. I would always prefer to teach a weaker student who chose German GCSE than a stronger one taking it against their will.

Citizenship is a bit of a random one tho. Is your dd taking history or RE or geography? If not I might suggest that as a possible option instead. Citizenship GCSE is not needed for any A level (interesting tho it sounds).

ControversialSuggestion · 28/03/2023 23:01

Also interested in this.

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