How important is a modern foreign language GCSE for Higher Ed?

I don’t agree learning something about another culture is a waste. We seem to be the only European country that has such a narrow attitude. It’s how we got to Brexit isn’t it?

I pushed my eldest to do a GCSE in French for the purposes of EBacc and potentially a stronger CV when applying to uni. They didn't enjoy it, the teacher wasn't great and they barely scraped through with a 4. They did A-Levels in biology, psychology and history plus core maths and applied in the healthcare field (biomedicine but not at an Oxbridge uni if it matters) and nowhere - not in the A-Levels, nor uni, was a requirement to have GCSE in a foreign language, as it does not have anything to do with their field, other than helping them be a well-rounded individual. One can demonstrate being a well-rounded individual in other ways - achieving DofE, volunteering, and taking up different activities. In retrospect I am sorry I pressed for French as it was wasted time and effort and without ever having learned the language, my French is still better than theirs...

My child's music teacher told me the only 2 subjects that have been proven to affect brain development are languages and music

Everything you do affects brain development. London cabbies have been shown to have enlarged brain areas corresponding to spatial ability as a result of have to learn the knowledge. Musical instrument practice over a sustained period does have particularly significant effects, though the studies I've seen examined peopled who had played hours a day for 10+ years, so thousands of hours of practice. It would be a bit odd if that didn't have a significant effect.

In recent years, only UCL required a foreign language at GCSE, and in the last few years they've said applicants who don't have it can satisfy the requirement by taking an equivalent course in their first year.
So, while foreign languages could be argued to be important and beneficial for many things, they are not specifically required or very important for university admissions to a non-language degree except insofar as they contribute to the overall strength of the application.

My child's music teacher told me the only 2 subjects that have been proven to affect brain development are languages and music. Apparently they do something to the brain in a measurable way that other subjects don't. I never looked up the research to see it there was anything in it.

However, our school seems to teach French by getting them to write 30 paragraphs in advance and then learn them by rote. The emphasis is on getting them to learn and regurgitate set phrases rather than actually use the language. She's top set in an academic school and she is missing some real basics because of all this emphasis on parroting. Had I known this is how they teach it at this school, I would have encouraged her to do something else. Anything else! It's bizarre because her teachers seem very competent and engaging.

I am all for learning MFL - especially having lived abroad and learned the local language (Italian) which was very much helped by previously studied French.

However, I convinced DS to do GCSE French and have regretted it at times since it was his weakest subject and he disliked it. But now that he’s almost finished his French exams I’m really glad I did. Having even just the GCSE basics is so much better than not having a language at all. It’s a really good starting point for if he’s interested/wants to live abroad/travel in the future - it’s too easy to slip into thinking you’re not good at foreign languages just because they are difficult.

As someone who graduated from university fairly recently, let me reassure you that unless your child is specifically studying a degree in a foreign language a university will not care that they have or don't have it.
Most universities offer their entry requirements online, here is Leeds BSc in Computer Science (not my university, but just an example). Quote:
Entry requirements
A-level: AAA including Mathematics or Computing. Grade B (6) or above in GCSE Mathematics is required if no Mathematics A-level is taken.

Where an A-level Science subject is taken, we require a pass in the practical science element, alongside the achievement of the A-Level at the stated grade.

Excludes A-level General Studies or Critical Thinking.

GCSE: English Language at grade C (4) or above, or an appropriate English language qualification. We will accept Level 2 Functional Skills English in lieu of GCSE English.

Extended Project Qualification and International Project Qualification: Whilst we recognise the value of these qualifications and the effort and enthusiasm that applicants put into them, we do not currently include them as part of our offer-making. We do, however, encourage you to provide further information on your project in your personal statement.

My son may not get as higher grade in his Spanish but he loves it and its great for him, dont be led by grades and exams be led by them and their enjoyment!
He is off to Madrid with the class and it opening all sorts of wonderful doors for him. Its more about grades its about life.

iMedia isnt a dumping ground or a lesser subject, in fact is is probably THE most important subject for the future ie the Metaverse, web.3, the language of the metaverse and the future. Those who can speak that language will be well equipped for the future...

I felt misled by school that the EBACC was an additional qualification for the students (if they did well in English, Maths, sciences, a humanity and a MFL) and it turns out it’s just another way the school are judged (number of students doing that range of subjects) and of no benefit to the individual. My son did Citizenship in Y10 - they had to choose that or RS to do a year early, and it was a really interesting course.

So true. I have many French friends and their DCs have got 9s in GCSE French so easily, when they are getting average results in other subjects, so they are not exceptionally bright. They are immersed in the language at home, on holiday several times a year. You just can't replicate it for a non-French speaking kid.

My DS is also in year 9 and although he is OK in French and gets average marks, thoroughly despises studying it. I studied it to GCSE level and have helped him a bit. I would have liked him and his sister (who's in yr8 and gets top marks in French) to take it up at GCSE but they are both vehemently opposed to it.

Dd was predicted a high 6 and was hoping for a 7. She was gutted

I think that the issue is native speakers. It's a bit stupid to have the same exam tbh.

The higher listening paper is truly fiendish... DD gets low 5s routinely despite working really hard at it. Hoping her great marks in the other papers will bump her up but in reality the best she can do is a 6/7. She has straight 9s everywhere else.
And yes 7 is still great but in this world of teen comparisons it sticks out for her. And the work she has to do to get that 7 is not really worth it. Wish she hadn't bothered.

Yes I feel guilty for encouraging dd to do French gcse. She got a 5 which was her worst grade. It was the listening paper which was her downfall. I remember working through some with her and thinking oh . This is hard. And I speak French quite well! She appeared to be doing well in lessons, watched a lot of French films and we spoke a bit of French at home. She really regrets taking it.

I was sold this line with DS1. He suffered through Spanish GCSE and got his worst grade in it. He would rather have done DT which as he is now doing fine art would have been more useful... it was a lie he has never been asked for a language GCSE.
DS2 didn't bother with an MFL and has 3 medicine offers for Sept
DD is doing French which she enjoys and is good at. But it is extremely hard. She says the Listening Paper esp is completely impossible to do very well in unless you speak French already at home. Its impossible to have the exposure to the amount of vocab needed without spending disproportionate hours on it when she has 10 subjects to revise. Her teacher agrees with this. The difficulty in getting a good grade actually puts the brightest off. It is her worst predicted grade by at least 2 levels and she works as hard on it but the grade boundaries are pushed up by native/ second language speakers. And at A level in her school only 1 or 2 a year take it who dont have it as their first or second language at home. So hardly exposing more people to foreign language!!!

Not having a MFL at gcse wouldn't have impacted my dcs at all. And I say that as someone who took three at gcse and did French A level.

So many people have a masters now that’s utterly irrelevant. At masters you have drilled down into a specialist subject. Luckily you don’t need a broad education to get one or large numbers of DC wouldn’t.

@longestlurkereverLoads of parents are anti MFL. I was crap at them too. However my DDs tried their hardest to do them. I fully supported them to be better than I was and I totally value MFLs. Especially now. They didn’t walk away when it’s tough.

The MFL push is mainly government led, there are targets and incentives for meeting those targets.

DS hated French (much to my dismay as I’m the MFL subject lead and a total Francophile). He didn’t take it at GCSE, taking computer science instead. He’s chosen to learn Japanese out of school, alongside his a levels and EPQ. He enjoys the language, the tuition and has put in far more effort than he did to French.

No comment was made by any of his university choices about his lack of GCSE in a language. He’s off to study international relations next year.

Fwiw mandarin is an option in many if my local schools

I do feel like your posts give away a bit about your attitude to mfl which may have rubbed off on your DC. Or at least, you're failing to take the opportunity to sell them to your DC. It's a global world we live in, especially in STEM subjects. Learning French, or whatever, leaves a foot in the door of mfl in general as once you've studied one language you're more equipped to learning others. It follows that not learning any, even to the basic gcse standard, is turning your back on the concept of mfl altogether, which I do see as a shame. It's naive to think french is only useful on holiday. It's an official language of the EU, and of Brussels, it's hq, and having a working knowledge (by no means fluent) has been useful to me in that context, as much for relationship building as anything, though it's also allowed me to read documents in french before they're translated, and get ahead. That's just an example, obviously, I'm not saying learn french so you can be an eu-facing civil servant, but closing your mind to mfl does close down opportunities which seems so unnecessary at this young age.

The Ebacc is a government target that schools are supposed to hit. In reality a lot of school only hit it as their students already have a home language different to English. There will be exceptions obvs

www.gov.uk/government/publications/english-baccalaureate-ebacc/english-baccalaureate-ebacc

My dd only ever did 9 months of a foreign language in yr 7. Never any other time.

She has a masters degree at a top uni and a good career.

@TizerorFizz you are being pretty vitriolic on this thread. Choices at GCSE are limited and the OP’s DD is already doing a number of academic subjects. Doing French or Media isn’t going to make any difference to her life in the long run, getting the best gcse grades she can is more important.

I have brought it in because you mentioned stem. English is needed by stem and yes, employees are English but some cannot write it well enough for a professional report to go unchecked. It’s pathetic. Often overseas employees are better. A C at gcse is a pretty low level and not good enough for professional reports. The fact that people do not see the need to write well is poor.

It’s interesting isn’t it how we are roundly told off if we are not wired for maths but are perfectly ok with not being wired for MFL. I also know many schools do not bother with 2xMFL. They do triple science though. So that’s all ok then. Anyone gifted at MFL can go away and not be catered for. It’s making an assumption that these Dc cannot learn. They can learn science though? Why are others not catered for?

Also it’s a very ignorant position to say that because you haven’t spoken a MFL, that the benefits of learning a MFL are limited to speaking it. Obviously (to many) they are not. This is undoubtedly why the Brits live in their Brexit bubble. They cannot be bothered to learn anything about anyone else. Deprived area or not, it’s a poor attitude.