Bucks 11+

“Dropping a note for others who are in a similar boat”@unconventionalmum23

As a midwife and a mother, I am bewildered. I suggest steering a wide berth from www.facebook.com/vicky.collins.927 from total tutoring in High Wycombe if she’s “taking an hour of her own time” to brainwash you, a new mother!

Your child is THREE MONTHS OLD!! If she genuinely cares about education, she would be advising you to relax with your child and simply enjoy and nurture each other.

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am considering moving into Bucks from Hampshire for my DD who is only 3 months old! It's a total minefield. I signed up to a lot of the 11+ forums online and came across a truly wonderful soul

www.facebook.com/vicky.collins.927 from total tutoring in High Wycombe. She took an hour of her own time to have a chat on her experiences of schools but also the component parts that make up successful candidates for grammar schools.

Dropping a note for others who are in a similar boatI

I probably know maybe 30 local children/families. Of which two have abused the system by bribing clergy. That's 6% which is not insignificant. (Admittedly anecdotal rather than hard data.)

I wouldn't dream of spilling the beans. It's the system (and church) which is at fault, not the parents and certainly not the children.

I have no skin in the game - DD is off to grammar. But the whole thing is desperately unfair and
made even worse by corruption.

However living in catchment is the best solution. No finding God needed!

So out of all the dc attending these schools you know of 2 cases. You can always spill the beans if you want to, Waddesdon does its own admissions.

I know two separate incidents (personally, not hearsay) of parents, who have literally paid the vicar or priest to say they went to church for two years when they didn't.

One was for a Catholic primary School, this one most recently was for Waddesdon school. It remains to be seen if the pupil gets in.

Both families involved are nominally religious, but the very fact they don't attend church flies in the face of the stipulated entry requirements. Ironically atheists who are too moral to do this suffer as they're not "religious" enough! To be clear, I don't massively have a problem with what the parents have done really; it's not hugely difference to me paying for tutoring, and we all do whatever we can for our children. I do however, have a moral issue with the so-called faith leaders taking cash, and a wider issue with the very idea of admission on the basis of faith.

@toprump Most people are honest about going to church to get into Waddesdon. Most decide it’s for them quite early. If you don’t find religion, the catchment is small. It’s still hugely sought after though and there’s the Aylesbury grammars if dc pssses.

South Bucks isn’t the same as around here. The LA talks about dc not being selected, mere mortals call it what it is. Failure to be selected! Luckily the vast majority of dc do get on with it. The parents are the problems.

Oh god, I could bore for England on the subject of the peaks and troughs in educational achievement - it's a well-established phenomenon (I used to work in educational research). Only around 2% of DCs get top grades throughout school and university, the huge majority vary. There are a myriad reasons for this but I'm probably straying a little too far from the original subject of the post to go into details here.

I agree with you @thing47that the DC themselves are not really bothered who goes where. Many of the parents are a different matter though.

Good for your DD. That's what I was saying about DC developing at different rates at different ages. Also some just miss it through nerves. It is actually a horrible system.

DD and all her friends just called it 'school' 😀

It's more the parents who worry about labels, I think. And fwiw my DD who went to one has a higher academic qualification than DS or any of his friends from grammar school.

Okay we all know exactly what secondary moderns are but maybe some are just a bit too polite to reference them as that, particularly when our DC are in grammars. It is a euphemism but who cares. Maybe upper school or non-selective secondary is a better description but everyone knows the score. It's just like you never say someone 'failed' the 11+ in Bucks but rather 'didn't get the right score'. The school gate politics around the 11+, particularly in Year 6, in Bucks are something else.

Nor have I and I've had DCs at both a grammar school and a secondary modern in the county, in addition to living here for most of my life.

You can also get into Waddesdon if you're a practising Christian.

Or, as a friend did when her DD unexpectedly didn't qualify for grammar, make a sizeable donation to a vicar who will falsify a statement saying you're a regular church attendee.

Ah, religion.

@KittysCorner I was referring to people who are unsure about whether DC will get to a grammar. That village gives cheaper housing and one of the best secondaries in Bucks. There’s a few others not far behind and that people appeal to get into.

Not sure why anyone in South Bucks refers to a non grammar as a comp as the definition of a comp is not met.

I've never heard anyone call them comps in Buckinghamshire.

Locally in South Bucks the non-grammars tend to be referred to as comps rather than secondary moderns although indeed that's what they are when their intake is skewed by the grammar intake.

Why move up to Waddesdon if you have bright kids that are comfortably in the top 30% and suited to grammar? Not everyone is over-tutored in the grammars and just because they are not super-selective doesn't mean they don't have that calibre of DC in them. Mine had no tutoring and each scored >160 in the 11+.

@KittysCorner Why do you call them “comps”? How can they be? There have never been true comps in Bucks except for MK. That’s now a separate LA. I’ve lived here for decades and remember the Council refusing to give up the grammars. It’s clearly not backed up by data to think the secondary (moderns) can be comprehensive. There are no true comps in Bucks because it’s impossible. They will take “all abilities” but via parental preference and that’s not very common.

Its not 30% all over Bucks either! That’s why Waddesdon is so successful. North Bucks isn’t the same as the South! I always suggest people move to Waddesdon if at all possible. There are other secondaries with 30% plus high achievers. Quite a few secondaries here do a very good job and better than many comps. Yes, definitely over tutored in the grammars.

@Tizerby its nature it is indeed disproportionate in Year 7 because the top 30% has been creamed off. So the comps are not fully comprehensive because the top 30% is missing. That said, there are bright DC who end up in the non-grammar schools who just had a bad day/ near miss too. Also DC develop at different rates and a DC may flourish academically a bit later so a couple of years later it may not be so stark. Similarly in the grammar schools there are (? overtutored) DC who make the cut but perform disappointingly once they are there.

@elevenduck It’s not disproportionate. It’s the proportions that get selected and those that don’t. These schools are not super selective. Looking at numbers on toll give you a steer.

Tring dc do go into Aylesbury which leaves Tring school a bit short. Anyone moving to Bucks should head for Waddesdon in North Bucks.

I basically did this, and regretted it. We moved to Bucks when DD was 2 for the grammar system.

What I hadn't fully appreciated is how much of an "eggs in one basket" issue it is as the grammar system means that the other schools are disproportionately full of less academic children. So if your child doesn't make the cut, it's not like you can send them to a decent comprehensive with a top stream.

As it happened, DD comfortably passed (with tutoring). But we have our next child to put through the process soon and it's not pleasant.

Given my time again I'd probably move somewhere like Tring which has access to the Aylesbury grammars (currently - catchment is never guaranteed out of Bucks) but has a decent comp to fall back on.

There are additional benefits including being close to my family once again. The sole purpose isn't for grammar schools though having the option is useful. Totally agree very premature to explore the idea of grammar school. I appreciate it sounds crazy ... I'm just someone who likes to be armed with knowledge.

Reason for moving to the area includes accessing one of the local independent prep schools also.

If he's average , you could maybe get him through the 11+ with tutoring (?). But would he then struggle at Grammar School ?

Is your name Vicky by any chance?

How can someone tell if a three month old baby is going to be suited to a grammar school? This level of exploration is quite pointless at this stage. Quite apart from the child's development, eleven years down the line the schools could have changed beyond recognition. It is pretty obvious to a parent whether a child will be suited to a grammar school once they are about 8 or 9. I really would wait eight years and then decide whether it is worth moving counties for.

I am considering moving into Bucks from Hampshire for my DD who is only 3 months old! It's a total minefield. I signed up to a lot of the 11+ forums online and came across a truly wonderful soul

www.facebook.com/vicky.collins.927 from total tutoring in High Wycombe. She took an hour of her own time to have a chat on her experiences of schools but also the component parts that make up successful candidates for grammar schools.

Dropping a note for others who are in a similar boat

You could be speaking my mind.

I agree with inattentive ADHD being worth looking into. It was my immediate thought. I have an inattentive ADHD diagnosis. Whilst I did ok in school and uni and have a solid career, grammar school would have destroyed me. Fortunately I didn’t pass my 11+. My son is yr12 at a Bucks grammar and it’s all about results snd it’s own PR. Pastoral care doesn’t exist. The school hadn’t had a SENDCo for nearly a year, which to me speaks volumes. As does the complete whitewashing of any drug issues in the school. One death and a not having to leave the area doesn’t seem to warrant concern. Concern or acknowledgment might expose the issues to ofstead or whoever headteachers care about.