Grammar school appeal

Kent is a strange county. The pass mark is inflated in the West with people trying for superselective grammars from London, meaning that in the East the pass mark filters out too many candidates leaving the grammar schools without enough pupils. Although that is not to say that a child who hasn't passed in West Kent stands no chance on appeal.

OP, if your daughter is naturally academic, what happened in that one area of the test? Is it a weaker subject, because we all have strengths and weaknesses, or was it a surprise that she did less well in one area.

I think it’s important, because if it was a blip, there’s no reason to doubt her ability, but if it’s something she’s not quite as good at academically, it might be difficult in future.

What I was referring to is the fact that the size of room needed for 30 pupils according to current standards was, until a few years ago, regarded as big enough for 35. But yes, it is a balancing act for the appeal panel. They have to figure out whether the disadvantage to the school from having another pupil (which includes the disadvantage to the other pupils) outweighs the disadvantage to the appellant from not being admitted.

That shouldn't happen. Where the grammar school has a pass mark rather than simply taking the highest scoring applicants, the Appeals Code is clear that the panel can only admit if they are satisfied that the child is of the required standard and that there is some reason they failed to perform on the day of the test. Successful appeals for grammar schools from people who didn't pass the test should be rare.

But the point I was making in my last post is that the appeal panel don't care where you live. Your chances of success should be the same regardless of whether you live next door to the school or over the border in the next local authority. Any appeal panel that takes location into account isn't doing its job properly.

To be clear, I'm not disagreeing with the advice given, it's absolutely correct, and it sounds like in some areas of Kent, if relevant, an appeal has a good chance at being successful.

Cope is a relative word, though, isn't it?

I can cope with classes of 32/33 in science, but the students don't get such a good experience. By Y11, it can get difficult to have the students moving around the classroom. There are certain practical activities I won't do once we've gone over 2 students per desk (i.e. 33 +) because I feel it's unsafe.

It's also too many for our DT rooms, and again impacts practical opportunities in those subjects.

We share equipment between classrooms, and the classrooms are equipped with more gas taps/sinks than we need.

We also try to have smaller sets at the bottom end of our GCSE years and a nurture group in Y7- but this isn't possible when classes are at 32 already.

I mean it's moot, because my school doesn't argue these points anyway- they are desperate for the bums on seats because of funding!

I agree with @prh47bridge too, whose advice and knowledge on England's school appeals process is second to none.

Hmm. I agree with prh47bridge. This isn’t about where the appellant lives, it’s about the strength (or not) of the school’s case for not admitting. If the school is undersubscribed, it’s going to be comparatively easy for the panel to conclude that there’s no prejudice in admitting additional pupils and so appeals are much more likely to succeed.

@prh47bridge, I never expected to disagree with you on an appeals post. I’ve read your advice to many people.

But I am going to disagree here. The undersubscribed grammar schools in my neck of the woods (East Kent) rely on non-qual appeals to put bums on seats. This doesn’t go down very well with the local high schools, unsurprisingly.

If your dc is reasonably academic (high expected, but not necessarily greater depth) in some parts of Kent there is a very good chance an appeal will be successful.

Where OP lives won't make any difference for an appeal.

I think it will depend on where you live. In some areas of the authority over one third pass and in more disadvantaged areas less than 20% may pass. Also, if you are closer to London or the county border that will have an impact.

I agree with others its really important to appeal for one of the schools which more often allows appeals because they have spaces. Have no idea where you are? sounds like you may be just outside Kent as you perhaps missed out on opportunity to have a headteacher appeal? In this area the schools which more often allow grammar appeals are Dover boys grammar, Barton Court, just in case that is helpful.

In fully grammar areas such as most of Kent and Buckinghamshire, yes (and I appreciate this is where the OP is so is the case here), but in a lot of areas there are only a few super selective grammars, so the non selective schools are still classed as comprehensive.

@Crazykatie if there are grammar schools then the non-grammars aren't comprehensives, they are secondary moderns (no matter what they call themselves)
Which is why parents are all in favour of grammar schools until their dc fails to get in

The worst out come is that your child is accepted and struggles at the bottom of the class, far better to be top of the class at a comprehensive. Grammar school is tough the work load is high, accept the decision and make the most of the alternative school, either way it’s up to the parents to make sure the child has the best environment to do well.

Quite. And anyone who wants to know more about the appeals process in England can find the latest admissions appeal code online. Panel members have to attend training which covers (amongst other things) the weighing-up of the cases for admitting and not-admitting.

Can I just say that prh47bridge and patriciaholm are both experts on school admissions, so whether or not you approve of appeals, what they say is what the procedure will be in the appeal room

OP not all grammar schools in Kent are oversubscribed - some have numerous spare places who get filled by children just like your child who just missed out on a pass . Some places like Dartford and Tonbridge tend to be but nearby places like Maidstone often have places to be had at appeal at sone school depending on their popularity at the time - numerous if children in your child's position travel in that circumstance. There is a similar situation in East Kent as advised by a PP. Your appeal is much more likely to be successful if you appeal to a school that has places because you 'only' have to prove that your child is suitable for grammar. Hopefully you were given this advice by your child's school in October before the applications deadline but it might not be too late to put in a late application and subsequent appeal to a school that likely has places. There used to be a great website which indicated which school often had places/your chance of success at appeal called kentadvice.co.uk. It recently shut but you maybe able to access the information you need on Wayback Machine. Alternatively, if you give more of an indication on here of your general area (or even better schools) people may be able to give you more appropriate advice.

I have worked in a school with an extraordinarily high rate of appeals, especially after the normal point of entry (patents moving into catchment for the ‘next stage’ school). Overcrowding - of classrooms and communal areas - is the absolute core of the school’s argument not to admit, and has been very successful over many years. Yes, all classes were above 30, always, but there was an ‘absolute hard boundary’ at a couple of extra children per class.

Historically, the school had coped well with classes with just those extra 1 or 2, so appeals for those 1 or 2 were generally successful (or at least, from the 5 - 8 appeals, 1 or 2 were admitted).

Appeals that took classes over that level were almost never successful, because the overcrowding / lack of equipment detriment to the school was so great that it outweighed almost every detriment to the child.

maybe you are right, maybe it could be even worse! Maybe they do think about it a little bit.

No they aren't, but that doesn't mean they don't give such arguments any weight.

no weight, the people sitting on the panel are not the people standing up in front of the class, of course they are not

"cope"

o sure, we can "cope"

As I have explained, we "cope" by disadvantaging the entire class every lesson of every day of their school career, and adding hugely to the teacher workload.

I have taught in poorer countries where we "coped" by tying chairs together in tows, and putting 3 children on each pair of chairs

"coping" means delivering a poorer education to the detriment of everybody