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Is this really year 8 maths?

111 replies

DrRuthGalloway · 18/03/2023 10:55

My DD is in year 8. She is in a comp, we live in a grammar area but she didn't pass 11+, just for context, maths is a weaker area though she is generally able in my opinion. She was 13 marks off passing 11+.

At the comp (genuine comp, not secondary modern) she is in top set maths. They have a new homework system. She seems to be getting ridiculously difficult tasks - screenshots attached, a couple of a series of this sort of thin from her most recent homework. Is this really expected in year 8? I have no idea how to solve this and even dh, who got A for maths O level back in the day, isn't certain. I thought the new guidelines were to stay within programmes of study for the age group and not zoom upwards, but I am quite shocked if this is ordinary year 8 work.

Is this really year 8 maths?
Is this really year 8 maths?
OP posts:
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larkstar · 18/03/2023 18:18

Retired maths teacher here: perfectly reasonable. The questions look complicated. The actual mathematical ideas needed to understand them are quite simple - the questions are partly testing that the students really understand the notation as well as very simple mathematical operations like multiply and divide. Remember that some of the teaching could/will take place when the teacher goes over the questions.

SoTedious · 18/03/2023 18:10

I was doing Boolean Algebra at age 10

Where and when was that @Onnabugeisha?

I don't think Boolean is on the maths syllabus these days, must do it in computer science though.

SoTedious · 18/03/2023 18:00

@jobadoo Not to be a dick but in case the OP or her DD is looking at your solution and wondering where the 12 came from, it's 2 not 12. So d = 40 + 8 - 2 = 46

IDontWantToBeAPie · 18/03/2023 17:58

Miadi · 18/03/2023 11:10

I was in top set maths in Year 8 in 2008. Tbf, I only got a C in maths, no idea why they never moved me down. Hated it. Loathed it. I wouldn't know what to do here. I can't simplify fractions either. I'll be no help to DD when the time comes, she's on her own.

I was in top set in 2011. I got an A. I have no idea what this image means either. Also loathed maths.

Rockingcloggs · 18/03/2023 17:57

Onnabugeisha · 18/03/2023 17:41

Theyre actually really easy to solve even for a Yr 8. No idea why you are whinging. I was doing Boolean Algebra at age 10 and Yr8 is usually age 12.

Whoooop! Go you! 🙄

jobadoo · 18/03/2023 17:43

Maths is incredibly useful in teaching logical thinking which then translates to critical thinking and learning skills

To tell children who are afraid of maths and numerical reasoning, I'd say that when I recruit people to work for me I want to know if this person can learn new tasks logically and critically (critically meaning being able to tell what's wrong and how to improve it). It takes a lot of time and effort to train a person up for work, with most of work tasks are never taught in school or any educational settings.

The best way to see that logical thinking ability is through the person's understanding of maths. I don't need A Level Maths but GCSE Maths is a pretty good indicator of the person's ability to learn new skills effectively.

DrRuthGalloway · 18/03/2023 17:43

Onnabugeisha · 18/03/2023 17:41

Theyre actually really easy to solve even for a Yr 8. No idea why you are whinging. I was doing Boolean Algebra at age 10 and Yr8 is usually age 12.

There's always one on mumsnet, always one....
🙄

OP posts:
Onnabugeisha · 18/03/2023 17:41

Theyre actually really easy to solve even for a Yr 8. No idea why you are whinging. I was doing Boolean Algebra at age 10 and Yr8 is usually age 12.

jobadoo · 18/03/2023 17:38

DrRuthGalloway · 18/03/2023 12:14

Another...I am going to try to work this out...

d+12-8=40
so d=40+8-12=36

Takeachance18 · 18/03/2023 16:51

Maybe the homework is checking how much they remember from last year? Mine have just been doing similar in year 7 recently. Then lessons can be planned/ delivered to their knowledge.

SoTedious · 18/03/2023 15:44

OP those are not standard form questions. I would look a bit further back in her book for rules of indices. y2 x y2 etc (that is supposed to be y to the power of 2).

She can use rules of indices to do the multiplication bit and the division bit, or think of it as a fraction and divide top and bottom by the same number until she can't go any further, just like if she had 24/52 or something.

handmademitlove · 18/03/2023 15:39

If it is Sparx, there are videos to watch to go with the questions. At any point you can go and watch them and they usually work through example questions. Perhaps find the videos and watch them together?

Okunevo · 18/03/2023 15:07

It looks like what I was doing in year 8 and I can still do those in my head now

CoffeeInTheClouds · 18/03/2023 14:59

That's interesting, I was definitely told he would get topics not yet covered in class. And it seems the op's daughter is too. It would certainly make more sense to follow the scheme of learning.

My son was told to find the teacher at lunchtime if he is stuck on his homework.

IbizaToTheNorfolkBroads · 18/03/2023 14:03

DS -Y9 - says yes, normal for Y8. Steve school, 2nd set maths

PeekAtYou · 18/03/2023 13:36

Mischance · 18/03/2023 13:00

"have them digging gardens instead" - my point precisely Why do we not value digging gardens? Why is this cited as a negative in your post?

Because many people live in flats and don't see digging gardens as a relevant life skill. I don't think that you can have a school curriculum where you can have all children learn stuff that will be useful in their lives. I don't see learning stuff that won't be used in real life as pointless- primarily because you don't know what is useful until you're much older. Plus people often develop interests after they've gone through school. For example an adult might have found history at school a waste of time but later want to study it further. The idea of a relevant to life curriculum is only possible if you home educate and shun traditional qualifications.

noblegiraffe · 18/03/2023 13:27

We teach kids all this stuff to keep doors open for them. Sure we could have them digging gardens instead, but what if they then decided they wanted to go on and do engineering? Or study English Lit?

WeWereInParis · 18/03/2023 13:15

Mischance · 18/03/2023 11:30

This is why children reject maths as a useful subject. What the hell use is this to them? - that is what they ask themselves, and then switch off.

I help my GS (Yr 6) with his maths homework and some of it seems monumentally pointless frankly. Why not give them stuff that makes practical sense to them? - how much wallpaper or tiles to buy for a certain size of room, how to calculate interest on a mortgage etc.

There is a place for pure maths for the academically minded, but thought needs to be given as to what purpose is served by putting children off maths when they simply cannot grasp this.

One of my DDs was like this and failed by one grade 3 times at GCSE - I told the college to just let her be and not make her keep taking it. She now has an excellent degree from a Russell Group university and an MA.

I looked up on an education site how children are now taught to do long division (I was finding it hard to explain to my GS as I had learned it a very different way) and they said that once you are dividing by 2 digits or more, they tell the children to use a calculator - quite right too!

By all means let us have maths purists and stretch and encourage their interest, but loading all this on those for whom maths is a trial is absolutely pointless - it puts them off maths and school and education. All for what?

Maths is incredibly useful, but even if you want to argue it isn't, you could argue the same about so many topics covered at secondary school.

Why do children need to be able to analyse the language of a poem?
Why do children need to know what makes up an atom?
Why do children need to know about Henry VIII?
Why do any children without a particular talent in it need to do any dance/drama/music/art?
Why do children need to know about ox bow lakes?
Why bother teaching children any other languages, everyone speaks English!

Why bother with any knowledge at all? Unless it's directly applicable to day to day life (which maths actually is) who gives a shit?

DedicatedFollowerOfFashion84 · 18/03/2023 13:09

Looks like very typical Year 8 maths to me.

titchy · 18/03/2023 13:09

*aren't

titchy · 18/03/2023 13:09

Why are you arguing what's the point teaching kids about covalent bonds or plant cells?

titchy · 18/03/2023 13:07

Mischance · 18/03/2023 13:00

"have them digging gardens instead" - my point precisely Why do we not value digging gardens? Why is this cited as a negative in your post?

Nothing wrong with digging gardens. But we absolutely should NOT be deciding which young teens will be the garden diggers. We give them ALL a chance to learn a wide range of stuff rather than pigeon hole them at age 14.

Mischance · 18/03/2023 13:00

"have them digging gardens instead" - my point precisely Why do we not value digging gardens? Why is this cited as a negative in your post?

DrRuthGalloway · 18/03/2023 12:59

Looked in books, can confirm no fractions in standard form. They have done basic 4 operations very recently. I can see this homework is taking it a bit further and hasn't been directly taught. Will raise the question with her teacher of what is expected when this happens in homework.

Is this really year 8 maths?
Is this really year 8 maths?
OP posts:
Mischance · 18/03/2023 12:59

I think that what we have now is the modern equivalent of 200 years ago to be honest.

It is not about dumbing down; it is about asking ourselves what education is FOR. How often do we stop and ask this fundamental question?

Early years education has moved on thankfully. It looks at developmental stages, at how children's minds work, at what is relevant and useful to them in the stage of life they are at. It does not pump facts for facts' sake. It is a massive step forward and answers the question what is education for. And then it all goes to pot.

Such importance is placed on core subjects that a true rounded education is lost. Schools struggle to fit in wider education because, fuelled by OfSted, they are encouraged down a narrow route. But what is this FOR?

Let us take music as one example. There is a wealth of evidence that learning music of every kind and in every way (free expression or detailed learning of musical notation) enhances a wide variety of learning with improvements in maths, social skills, motivation etc. But it is an add-on in the curriculum. It is regarded as less important than fronted adverbials and complex equations. But which is the most life-enhancing, which can lead to life-long interests and joys, which helps us to be rounded citizens? Certainly not the maths in the OP.

Education has become about cramming facts and processes that are government-dictated and micro-managed. It has become about testing and data. Let us not forget that government ministers are not educationalists and neither are they willing to listen to educationalists. We are being led by the nose into a system that gives us school dropouts, young people who feel alienated from school and can't wait to leave, adult citizens whose young lives have been dominated by "achieve , achieve", young adults who have a duistorted sense of values that involve climbing the career ladder and being economically productive above all else. There are other important things in life that they lose out on.

What is education FOR?