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Secondary education

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Original poster

Going from independent prep to state secondary

67 replies

kak808 · 06/03/2023 22:16

My DD is in Y4, so I’m a bit early to be thinking about this, but secondary school is fast approaching. We’re currently paying for prep but I don’t see us being able to afford this at the secondary level unless our financial situation improves considerably.

My DD has a lot of social anxiety and really struggles making friends. She is not someone who can cope with bullying and is SEN. I just worry about sending her to a comprehensive after her sheltered prep experience (very small school) and if she’ll deal with the change ok. I just envision her being referred to as “posh tw*t” every day a la Will from Inbetweeners 😭

Also, if we were to make the move to state and then it just really didn’t work out well would we basically lose the opportunity to get into an independent secondary or would her 11+ schools (assuming we still had her do them) kind of carry over if we were looking to make a change?

Unfortunately we’re unlikely to get into the one state comp (all-girls) that looks pretty good to me and I don’t hear great things about our closer (co-ed) schools.

Anyone been through similar and have advice?

OP posts:
tweedlee · 07/03/2023 13:20

Can't help with the independent prep to state secondary but I would say visit the secondary schools ASAP. This coming autumn definitely as they usually hold their open evenings then.

RosieRiveting · 07/03/2023 13:16

I was also going to ask about the possibility of moving closer to a single sex state secondary. Give yourself a little more choice.

minipie · 07/03/2023 13:12

As you are renting could you move nearer the state girls’ school - assuming that will give you a better chance of getting in?

VAT on school fees… my personal view is it won’t happen. It would cost too much due to the additional state school places that would be needed, compared with what it would raise. It’s being waved around as an emotional vote winner but it doesn’t make economic sense in reality. I may be wrong of course - we will know more in a couple of years.

Also, if you are on a bursary now, that suggests you may well be eligible for one at senior level. Worth calling some bursars and asking.

From what you’ve said I suspect an ECHP is a stretch, let alone one naming a private school.

Original poster
kak808 · 07/03/2023 13:08

FloatingBean · 07/03/2023 12:53

IPSEA and SOSSEN’s websites are good resources. Both charities also have advice lines.

Much appreciated — thank you.

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Original poster
kak808 · 07/03/2023 13:07

BungleandGeorge · 07/03/2023 12:55

Depends on your state school
options. Ours had great academic teachers but non existent SEN/ pastoral care. All schools are totally different especially now they are academies. In my experience there’s quite a lot of school hopping in year 7 and 8.

Yeah I guess I’ll just have to do lots of research. I was already overwhelmed at the thought of doing this for 4 independent schools, but now maybe 4 comps as well!

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BungleandGeorge · 07/03/2023 12:55

Depends on your state school
options. Ours had great academic teachers but non existent SEN/ pastoral care. All schools are totally different especially now they are academies. In my experience there’s quite a lot of school hopping in year 7 and 8.

FloatingBean · 07/03/2023 12:53

IPSEA and SOSSEN’s websites are good resources. Both charities also have advice lines.

Original poster
kak808 · 07/03/2023 12:52

FloatingBean · 07/03/2023 12:47

EHCPs are about far more than academic ability. You have nothing to lose by applying.

Show quote history

Thanks — I’ll look more into this. Unfortunately I really know nothing about ECHPs and only became of aware of them recently. Do you happen to have a good link or starting point for research?

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FloatingBean · 07/03/2023 12:47

kak808 · 07/03/2023 12:30

She doesn’t have an EHCP. The SENCO seems to think her academic achievement is high enough that it’s not warranted? She said we could go ahead with trying to get one but it sounds complicated and expensive so I’m not sure we’ll do that just yet.

Show quote history

EHCPs are about far more than academic ability. You have nothing to lose by applying.

Original poster
kak808 · 07/03/2023 12:40

Oh and at this point DD says she 100% wants a single sex secondary (which again were unlikely to get into on the state side), but maybe her views on that will change with time. She just finds all the boys in her class to be annoying and disruptive. Can’t disagree with her there!!

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Original poster
kak808 · 07/03/2023 12:37

TooManyPlatesInMotion · 07/03/2023 09:52

@MrsMikeHeck I agree with your suggestion about doing open evenings and visiting during the school day. My kids go to state schools but DH is a teacher at a London independent; we have both been v impressed with what our local state schools have to offer.

Open evenings have a tendency to be a bit of staged performance, but if you are also able to go to an open day during the school day, it is extremely helpful, as you see break time/change over between lessons etc, and get a sense of daily life at the school.

Agreed. Will do.

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Original poster
kak808 · 07/03/2023 12:37

stclair · 07/03/2023 12:34

Dd in year 9 went from a prep to a single sex private school. She struggled badly once she got there - self harm, suicide attempt - and since diagnosed with autism . While school very good when CAMHS got involved, they really don’t know how to cope with the autism side and we are always getting emails/phone calls. Dd2 is finishing prep and although we were expecting to carry on the private route, we’ve just accepted a place at a big state girls school and will consider whether we can move dd1 there

I’m sorry your DD has such a hard time and I hope you’re able to find something that works for her!

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Original poster
kak808 · 07/03/2023 12:35

Jackofallsorts · 07/03/2023 05:07

Your child is in Year4 so she is 7/8?

She's a very young child yet has been classed as SEN. She's in therapy. Has been labelled with anxiety and ADHD. You're talking about "sheltering" her.

Your paying what I assume is a considerable amount for her to attend a private prep school. It seems to be a financial struggle.You have considerable anxiety over her secondary education which is at least 2 years away.

There seems to be a lot more going on here than just usual state vs public school decisions.

She’s 9, but yes, it’s a lot going on at a young age. I’m hoping to get things a bit more under control with her.

I only started thinking about this because the prep is beginning to talk about 11+ a bit with the Y4 parents. As I said somewhere else, I just assumed we’d stick with independent secondary, but now hearing about the VAT issue, that mail be the nail in the financial coffin for us! Therefore, suddenly I’m thinking about all of these things I hadn’t considered before.

We still have a lot of time and things with my daughter’s well-being, our finances, the government, etc. could still all change! I just had a sudden “oh sh!t” moment and felt I needed to get some input, so I appreciate all of the feedback.

OP posts:
stclair · 07/03/2023 12:34

Dd in year 9 went from a prep to a single sex private school. She struggled badly once she got there - self harm, suicide attempt - and since diagnosed with autism . While school very good when CAMHS got involved, they really don’t know how to cope with the autism side and we are always getting emails/phone calls. Dd2 is finishing prep and although we were expecting to carry on the private route, we’ve just accepted a place at a big state girls school and will consider whether we can move dd1 there

Original poster
kak808 · 07/03/2023 12:30

Ilovechoc12 · 07/03/2023 04:54

How much sen does she have? Has she an EHCP? If she needs one you could fight to get the independent the named school.

If she doesn't need a EHCP and your struggling for cash I'd pull her from the private school next term - these 11 plus places go 50:50 state vs independent so it sometimes seems to be easier to get a "state" school independent place at 11 plus compared to the highly over tutored independent place ..... then she might have some friends to go into secondary if the independent sector isn't financially viable. Plus you would have £20k or more in your bank. Plus you could get in a tutor if you needed it for the 11 plus

She doesn’t have an EHCP. The SENCO seems to think her academic achievement is high enough that it’s not warranted? She said we could go ahead with trying to get one but it sounds complicated and expensive so I’m not sure we’ll do that just yet.

OP posts:
Original poster
kak808 · 07/03/2023 12:28

user1477391263 · 07/03/2023 00:03

OP, it sounds like you are in a bit of a private schools bubble. Can you join some local groups and get talking to people? You will get information and (probably) reassurance about the local state schools that way.

Not spending money on school fees will free up some money to get your daughter into some interests outside school - a club or hobby that interests here and where she will meet some similar girls - as opposed to the private school experience where extra curriculars are more likely to be on site and involving the same set of school peers.

Given the VAT threat and inflation, she won't be the only child there who went to a private school and has now had to change to state.

Honestly it’s the VAT issue that is pushing me over the edge! I sort of thought we’d just find a way to make it work for independent secondary as well, but the VAT may do us in!

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TooManyPlatesInMotion · 07/03/2023 09:52

@MrsMikeHeck I agree with your suggestion about doing open evenings and visiting during the school day. My kids go to state schools but DH is a teacher at a London independent; we have both been v impressed with what our local state schools have to offer.

Open evenings have a tendency to be a bit of staged performance, but if you are also able to go to an open day during the school day, it is extremely helpful, as you see break time/change over between lessons etc, and get a sense of daily life at the school.

Decisions23 · 07/03/2023 07:10

@kak808 definitely go to
open days at both Indy and state and also take your child. I took my daughter to look round two state schools because I wanted her to see all options. They were both large and co-Ed, she is desperate for single sex and didn’t like either at all even though I thought they would give her a wider social pool to find her tribe so to speak.

I was so impressed with both the schools and the open day subject taster rooms, friendly staff, but I could tell our daughter felt uncomfortable with the relative chaos, size, noise, raucous boys. Nothing inspired her, even when she saw a couple of children from her current school attending the open day too.

We’ve opted for a mid-size Indy single sex.

Jackofallsorts · 07/03/2023 05:07

Your child is in Year4 so she is 7/8?

She's a very young child yet has been classed as SEN. She's in therapy. Has been labelled with anxiety and ADHD. You're talking about "sheltering" her.

Your paying what I assume is a considerable amount for her to attend a private prep school. It seems to be a financial struggle.You have considerable anxiety over her secondary education which is at least 2 years away.

There seems to be a lot more going on here than just usual state vs public school decisions.

Ilovechoc12 · 07/03/2023 04:54

How much sen does she have? Has she an EHCP? If she needs one you could fight to get the independent the named school.

If she doesn't need a EHCP and your struggling for cash I'd pull her from the private school next term - these 11 plus places go 50:50 state vs independent so it sometimes seems to be easier to get a "state" school independent place at 11 plus compared to the highly over tutored independent place ..... then she might have some friends to go into secondary if the independent sector isn't financially viable. Plus you would have £20k or more in your bank. Plus you could get in a tutor if you needed it for the 11 plus

user1477391263 · 07/03/2023 00:03

OP, it sounds like you are in a bit of a private schools bubble. Can you join some local groups and get talking to people? You will get information and (probably) reassurance about the local state schools that way.

Not spending money on school fees will free up some money to get your daughter into some interests outside school - a club or hobby that interests here and where she will meet some similar girls - as opposed to the private school experience where extra curriculars are more likely to be on site and involving the same set of school peers.

Given the VAT threat and inflation, she won't be the only child there who went to a private school and has now had to change to state.

RosieRiveting · 06/03/2023 23:55

State schools are just as likely to have lots of well spoken middle class kids in, it's not going to just be your daughter and then everyone else is from a council estate.

They also can be very good with SEN, that's something to check out in advance. State schools have to deal with it way more often than private. The ones I viewed had nurture groups, a pastoral team ready to look after students, and an interest in getting the best from all kids.

Go look at some schools when they start having open days again in September and ask questions. They might surprise you.

Original poster
kak808 · 06/03/2023 23:52

RelentlessForwardProgress · 06/03/2023 23:49

I also have a yr 4 at indep and am weighing up options for secondary.

My DC sound quite similar, ADHD, socially inept, very immature etc. Is also currently at a small, very supportive school with small classes and lots of time for one on one. I also worry what entry into a state secondary would look like.

I am also starting to think about what to do but the way forward isn't clear to me at all at the moment.

It’s tough! Luckily we still have some time and I hear our DCs will change a lot between now and then 😀 Hopefully the answers will become clear.

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Original poster
kak808 · 06/03/2023 23:51

MrsMikeHeck · 06/03/2023 23:44

Both my dc went from independent at primary to state secondary. DH and I are both teachers, and have both worked in private and state - him secondary and me primary.

As an adult looking in from the outside, state secondaries seem terrifying but honestly there are so many awesome things about them.

State SEN provision is miles ahead of private and the pastoral support my dd (also big social anxiety) has received has been consistently excellent.

I think state schools are able to be more reflective. They expect bullying to happen and so will have policies in place and then act on those policies. My experience of the private sector is that they are so terrified of anything bad being attributed to the school that they are inclined to minimise and ignore, or defer to the loudest shouting parent.

I would suggest going to look at as many secondaries as you can. Do the open evenings next September, but then also visit during the school day if they have tours. You’ll soon get a feel for what you like. Good luck!

I do agree I’m sure there are plenty of benefits to state schools! I always assumed that’s where my children would end up but we ended up waylaid into the private school system somehow.

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Original poster
kak808 · 06/03/2023 23:50

padsi1975 · 06/03/2023 23:43

Don't 93% of UK kids go to state secondaries? Reading on here, you'd think the state schools are the wild west. It doesn't make any sense. Unless you accept that 93% of the country get educated in dreadful establishments. Are you sure that the state schools are bad? Or are they just state schools, totally fine but not fee paying. That is an entirely different thing.

I think my problem is the bubble of only knowing parents in London whose children are in independent schools. Maybe I just need to make some new friends!

As I previously stated, I went to a large, rough state school and honestly had the time of my life. My DD just seems so…fragile? I’m just not sure it’s the right choice for her.

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