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Original poster

Grammar School Appeal - Trafford Council

108 replies

SisterAnna · 05/03/2023 17:13

Hi Everyone,

I was hoping for some direction prior to sending the appeal documentation and tackling the whole process.
We have applied to 4 schools with grammar school where my daughter passed being our 1st choice. Unfortunately were declined all 4 offers due to oversubscription criteria. We got a place in school in Manchester Council which was re-branded under new name following its closure in 2021 (school was inadequate in majority of categories). The situation is beyond desperate!!! 😩

I am preparing evidence to appeal to the grammar school based on the following and would appreciate MumsNet Panel members for any advice. It needs fine tuning and good presentation strategy but main points are below:

  1. Daughter has passed the entrance exam with 370 marks, pass rate was 360 but due to such high amount of applications the cut off was actually 379 marks. However she demonstrated to be of grammar school standard as she passed above the required pass mark.

  2. Mention the importance of religion to our family and moral and ethical alignment with the grammar school's ethos (school is of catholic faith).

  3. From the young age DD had suspicion of development issues with possible mild form of autism and was under the Community Peadiatrician care between 2016-2017 when she was discharged. I am in possession of all medial letters stating this fact as well as supporting report from the childminder who looked after her for 2 years.
    The evidence is rather old and due to mild spectrum we found ways to manage her oversensitivity. She has not been tested since 2017. Is this still relevant as I don't have hard evidence she still suffers - which she does and will all her life.

  4. Report from the school will be provided describing daughter's ability to learn and above the standard, her kind nature and attitude to work but also the issues she had to go through – even in year 5 she was still not coping with the noise and had to stay in Headteacher’s office to tackle the stress

  5. Mention replacement school as inadequate in standard, same management board, all below the standard incl. SEND and not adequate for the child that is talented but also fragile – this will only be briefly described without trying to slam the school but more as a contra to what awaits DD if she goes to preferred school.

  6. I wanted to submit a couple of pictures of art projects DD did at home – pastels and paints – she is making amazing progress and is very creative. The grammar school provides curriculum in arts and design and sports. Daughter excels in all those disciplines as well as learning.

  7. Not sure if I should mention myself at all with FCCA and MBA degrees. The school ethos is to nurture young women to become strong and independent leaders. I would like to think that I can be a role model, that anything is possible if she works hard for it.

We are on waiting lists everywhere possible and rejected place in the replacement school (they still hold her place regardless).

Thank you all so much for taking time to read.

OP posts:
JimmyGrimble · 05/03/2023 21:29

So now you’re going to apply to Parrs Wood? Religion not so important then? People in Manchester bussing their children out of area to so called better schools is what has caused this ridiculous situation in the first place. You should send your child to your local secondary and trust her to do well. And yes. I did.

AvaCallanach · 05/03/2023 21:26

Lougle · 05/03/2023 21:18

That doesn't necessarily follow. It could be argued that it is non-inclusive because it doesn't deal with those children within its core provision. (I know nothing about the school, but I can't imagine a panel being swayed by an argument that says 'there is a resourced provision but my child won't be allocated a place in it'.)

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I do know the school, and the system! So the schools that choose to host RPs in Mcr tend to be inclusive. The RP children are children who couldn't manage mainstream ordinarily (but need a mainstream level curriculum ), accessed only via EHCP.

I wasn't suggesting it for an appeal, just as an option for waiting list place.

Original poster
SisterAnna · 05/03/2023 21:21

DistrictCommissioner · 05/03/2023 20:50

You need to get on the waiting lists of the Manchester schools - CHS, Didsbury High? Its not clear where exactly you live.

I don’t think you’ve got much chance at all at this appeal from the experience of friends in Trafford, so if you’ve rejected your offered school you need to line up something for your DC…

@DistrictCommissioner I have secured few placed on waiting lists, have resubmitted for Parrs Wood but will try CHS and other too. I feel lost completely but no time to waste, appealing in one place does not rule out waiting in the other.
Thank you all others for the comments as well, apologies for not responding individually, you certainly scared the sh* out of me so will push harder and with many more choices.
I was defo too optimistic with my initial approach. Good job I have two kids.. will get to do this again in few years time maybe wiser second time round 😩

OP posts:
Lougle · 05/03/2023 21:18

AvaCallanach · 05/03/2023 21:09

Yes you do. But the point being, it is an inclusive environment as it has chosen to host a resource provision.

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That doesn't necessarily follow. It could be argued that it is non-inclusive because it doesn't deal with those children within its core provision. (I know nothing about the school, but I can't imagine a panel being swayed by an argument that says 'there is a resourced provision but my child won't be allocated a place in it'.)

snowtrees · 05/03/2023 21:16

Argh yes that is true @AvaCallanach
I thought you meant OP could access it. Good school

AvaCallanach · 05/03/2023 21:09

snowtrees · 05/03/2023 21:08

@AvaCallanach you need a formal diagnosis to access the ASD resource centre at Barlow. I know that as a fact as know plenty there.

Yes you do. But the point being, it is an inclusive environment as it has chosen to host a resource provision.

snowtrees · 05/03/2023 21:08

@AvaCallanach you need a formal diagnosis to access the ASD resource centre at Barlow. I know that as a fact as know plenty there.

Lougle · 05/03/2023 21:01

NotPennysBoat · 05/03/2023 20:53

None of your points will make any difference whatsoever because you live too far away. Simples (& fair!).

This isn't true. All the OP has to do is convince the panel that if her DD doesn't get the place, it will do her more harm than it would cause the school to have to accommodate an extra pupil.

Some arguments are stronger than others. Some are very unlikely to succeed. Additionally, the OP's appeal could be one of 50 that the panel hears for the same school, so all the arguments will be balanced against each other in the event that the panel thinks the school could admit some extra pupils, which would raise the bar for a successful appeal.

The OP has the right to appeal. The fact that her DD passed the exam means that it doesn't matter what score she got. She could win an appeal with a score of 370 and a child with a score of 378 could lose, depending on the strength of their arguments. There could be a child who missed out by 3 metres who loses their appeal, and a child who lives 3 miles away who wins. Waiting list orders make no difference in appeals, either.

snowtrees · 05/03/2023 20:56

You need to find out how many were ahead of you at loreto & if you can be on wait list. Dito all highs you would prefer over Dixon's. Manchester distance data is available on line.
Not clear where you live.

AvaCallanach · 05/03/2023 20:55

Get her on waiting list at CHS South and MEA South/central. Parrswood too. You could also contact Barlow RC in Didsbury - a small school with a resource provision for autism, I wouldn't be surprised if you got a wait list place there. No point in Didsbury high, hugely hugely oversubscribed.

Friend's child went to the school I suspect you have been allocated and did very well - went on to sixth form and uni. You should at least go visit.

NotPennysBoat · 05/03/2023 20:53

None of your points will make any difference whatsoever because you live too far away. Simples (& fair!).

HobnobsChoice · 05/03/2023 20:53

Were you offered Dixons Newall Green? It's under a totally new Academy Trust, different leadership and trustees. Rebuild planned.
There are no places at Didsbury or CHS South but you can go on the waiting list but realistically you won't get a waiting list place at Didsbury if you are m22/m23 way. If not on waiting lists for St Paul's MEA then email and ask to be added plus Parrs Wood, Chorlton, Loreto and The Barlow if you are RC. (Assuming so as you must be talking about Loreto grammar in terms of faith grammar). None are guaranteed. The Year 6 intake is huge and still growing, the DFE doesn't care. This same situation with out of authority places happened last year only Newall Green wasn't reopening so kids were offered Manchester Academy or Cedar Mount in Gorton.

The LA won't remove the place unless you win an appeal or home educate. If your daughter doesn't go on roll they will start down the school attendance order route.

Fuctifin0 · 05/03/2023 20:50

Lougle · 05/03/2023 20:42

It's not a fail. There is a score that 'passes' as being of 'grammar calibre'. That score is 360 this year. The OP's DD got 370, so passed. However, there were lots of applicants that scored above 360, so the last admitted child in the category her DD sits in scored 379, so she missed out by 9 marks.

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Ah okay, I see.
It's all seems rather complicated.
Mine got an OOC place some years back where the 20 highest marks of OOC children, above the pass mark were offered a place.
Trafford seems a lot more complicated.

DistrictCommissioner · 05/03/2023 20:50

You need to get on the waiting lists of the Manchester schools - CHS, Didsbury High? Its not clear where exactly you live.

I don’t think you’ve got much chance at all at this appeal from the experience of friends in Trafford, so if you’ve rejected your offered school you need to line up something for your DC…

Original poster
SisterAnna · 05/03/2023 20:45

Lougle · 05/03/2023 20:42

It's not a fail. There is a score that 'passes' as being of 'grammar calibre'. That score is 360 this year. The OP's DD got 370, so passed. However, there were lots of applicants that scored above 360, so the last admitted child in the category her DD sits in scored 379, so she missed out by 9 marks.

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Thank you @Lougle for clarifying this first. Ouch! I already feel as being in front of the panel ;)

OP posts:
Lougle · 05/03/2023 20:42

Fuctifin0 · 05/03/2023 20:36

You say the pass mark was raised to 379 and your dd got 370.
That is a fail. I wouldn't have thought you've got a hope in hell's chance of a successful appeal if she hasn't reached the required standard.

It's not a fail. There is a score that 'passes' as being of 'grammar calibre'. That score is 360 this year. The OP's DD got 370, so passed. However, there were lots of applicants that scored above 360, so the last admitted child in the category her DD sits in scored 379, so she missed out by 9 marks.

Fuctifin0 · 05/03/2023 20:36

You say the pass mark was raised to 379 and your dd got 370.
That is a fail. I wouldn't have thought you've got a hope in hell's chance of a successful appeal if she hasn't reached the required standard.

Nonameoclue · 05/03/2023 20:35

If the score is standardized it's not 9 marks, you will have no idea how many marks it is.
Most papers are computer marked so unlikely to be wrong. Some areas allow a remark for a few but I don't think it changes very often.
How does the other school hold the place if you turn it down?

ComeOnWill · 05/03/2023 20:32

I don't see what re-marking would achieve.

There will be lots and lots of kids in GM who would pass the 11 plus, and pass it very well, but if they don't live in Trafford then they won't get the opportunity - and this is fair enough.

Original poster
SisterAnna · 05/03/2023 20:28

@Minimalme I can only hope that wherever we end up it will be one big happy ending. Glad your son is finding his way and came across wonderful teachers who can appreciate him.
@RainBow725 thank you for sharing. I imagine it is getting harder and harder every year, a lot of this due to the flaws in the system rules @WittynotPretty is so passionately talking about. The ration of students is insane. Sale Grammar school itself had 3300 children sit their entrance exams this year.

OP posts:
imagemini · 05/03/2023 20:27

How does the school she was allocated still hold her place if you rejected it?

Original poster
SisterAnna · 05/03/2023 20:14

Lougle · 05/03/2023 19:30

I'm not in a grammar area but a complete waste of time, imo. It would be very unlikely to have missed 10 marks, I would imagine, and even if so, she's over the line for score, she just didn't get in.

Inadequate schools normally have huge resources poured in to them, so it may not be as bad as you fear. Have you actually viewed the school?

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You are right, 9 marks may be small in the 370 scale as a % but overall it would be a large mistake to make. So close yet so far.
I have spoken to couple of people who attend the other school and online reviews mention environment I would dread to have my daughter to end up in :(

OP posts:
Original poster
SisterAnna · 05/03/2023 20:11

PanelChair · 05/03/2023 19:25

I am not in a grammar school area so have no recent experience, but my understanding is that any review or remarking of the 11+ test would have had to be done nearer the time of the test. If you want to argue that your child should have been above the cut-off, you will need to pursue that as a separate strand.

The appeal will (as previously explained) focus on the arguments around prejudice/detriment. The panel will accept that your child is qualified for grammar school (ie scored above the pass mark) and will be considering whether they should be offered a place despite not reaching the cut-off.

I didn’t suggest you omit all the points in your first post but I reiterate now: if you dwell on the allocated school and what you regard as its shortcomings you are first of all wasting time (because the appeal is for the school you prefer, not against the one you’ve been allocated, and you need to spend your time identifying positive reasons for child to attend it) and secondly you may be antagonising the panel, who might have children there. Your wanting your child to attend a Catholic school is not relevant to an appeal, so again you would be wasting time if you dwell on it.

Identify all the aspects of the school - curriculum, extra curricular activities, pastoral care, whatever - which would suit your child and focus on those.

All taken on board @PanelChair , I appreciate your involvement and thank you for sharing years of expertise. I shall pursue the route you suggest.

OP posts:
Minimalme · 05/03/2023 19:59

And I say this as the mother of a sensitive boy with ASD who is intelligent who goes to an undersubscribed, underachieving secondary.

My experience is that the school are delighted to have him, value his work ethic, let him flex his timetable in a way that suits him and generally offer any adaptation he wants or needs.

He is top set and getting great grades. And the best thing is that he has grown into an independent learner because no one is aggressively pushing him.

RainBow725 · 05/03/2023 19:54

I live in Trafford and my kids have gone to two different grammars. I've never known anyone to get in on appeal in these circumstances. The schools are all massively oversubscribed. Loads of Trafford kids who have passed don't get a place. It's really tough. Most Trafford non selective schools are oversubscribed as well. I'm guessing if you are just over the border that maybe you've been allocated Dixons? I have friends with kids there who have done well and gone on to good unis.

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