Those deciding which independent school to accept - check if it is still in Teacher Pension

WombatChocolate · 2023-02-26T14:40:14+00:00

I’ve been following a number if the threads where people have been trying to decide which offer to accept and grappling with journeys, scholarships, extra curriculars, etc etc. One further thing to consider in the mix - do you know if the independent school you’re considering remains in the Teacher Pension Scheme? A number of schools (significantly less than half still) have withdrawn from the pension so they can reduce the longer term commitment to have much the school needs to fund their staff pensions. On one level, parents might think that looks good because it means fees will be a bit lower. That is probably true. However, also consider staff recruitment into the future. We all know there is a teacher recruitment and retention crisis. Even the top independents are finding they have fewer applicants and sometimes none or no quality ones for vacancies. Schools that have left the Teacher Pension Scheme will find it harder and harder to recruit quality staff, because they will simply have the option to go elsewhere - to a state school or an alternative independent. The vast majority of top and larger independents still remain within the Teacher Pension scheme. So, it’s just something you might want to ask at Offers Days and bear in mind. If your child wilL be going to a school for 7 years, you’d hope the good existing staff will stay and as people naturally leave, that the school will manage to recruit great replacements. Some schools might find that 7 years down the line, their staffing quality is quite different to today or even the last couple of years ago. Just something else to consider.

doglover90 · 03/02/2024 06:58

SaltySeaCat · 02/02/2024 21:07

Teachers in independent schools have so many other perks than just pension. The 4 extra weeks paid holiday, the increased planning time, the free lunches, the amazing resources and small classes of generally well behaved children. I think going back to the state sector would be a massive shock for many of them. But that will likely be the only option to stay in TPS once VAT on fees kicks in.

Some independent schools may have amazing resources but I've worked in indy schools where there have been very few resources - no cover teachers, no TAs, no reprographics dept etc. Longer holidays yes but longer days. Fewer lessons (sometimes) but lots of extracurricular. It's swings and roundabouts. Agree that behaviour makes a huge difference.

Phineyj · 02/02/2024 22:41

I moved from independent back to state partly because of pensions and the active focus on managing behaviour and attendance has been a refreshing change tbh. The independent was putting up with far too much for fear of the parents.

I do miss the longer holidays and the lovely food but enjoy having sufficient teaching time.

MargeIsBack · 02/02/2024 22:04

They won’t get rid of the TPS but continue to make small changes to the scheme rules (as they did to pensionable age etc) to make it cost it less money long term. The problem with it is that it’s an unfunded scheme that costs the govt £ms each year and contributions paid don’t bear any relation to money individuals get out.

Making education a business is absolutely the problem with independent schools but that’s what they are - businesses! Even those that are charities - their trustees need to make sensible financial decisions to keep the charity afloat and in most cases that will be to exit a scheme with ever increasing unknown costs often imposed at short notice that will severely restrict spending elsewhere or mean, for some schools, financial failure. The harsh reality of private schools is that if a parent can’t pay the fees, little Jonny is kicked out which probably is the worst thing for little Jonny’s welfare (and precisely what a school should be trying to protect) but is the reality when you don’t pay for the service you’ve received with a business.

Ladybowes · 02/02/2024 21:28

I don’t think the government will change the teacher pension scheme it’s virtually the same as the civil service pension and the NHS pension! Recruitment of teachers is at a crisis level and they need to keep it attractive. There would be calls to change the pensions of all public servants and I can’t see that happening. Teachers in the state sector will soon be in a much better position.

Making education a business is part of the problem here. But that’s a whole new thread.

SaltySeaCat · 02/02/2024 21:07

Teachers in independent schools have so many other perks than just pension. The 4 extra weeks paid holiday, the increased planning time, the free lunches, the amazing resources and small classes of generally well behaved children. I think going back to the state sector would be a massive shock for many of them. But that will likely be the only option to stay in TPS once VAT on fees kicks in.

MargeIsBack · 02/02/2024 20:53

I think the issue is that 90%+ independent schools will have left inside 36 months. There is no rational reason for a school to remain in a scheme where contributions can be raised unilaterally with no ability to control that cost by the school. No business can operate with that unknown hanging over them along with the many other unknowns currently at play. There will be more and more changes (later and later retirement dates etc) to the TPS centrally as the government continuing to fund it for state schools will also become increasingly unviable and something they look to change. Recruitment is a valid reason to raise but the schools I have been involved with who have left have not suffered as a result of leaving and it is also notable that there has not been a big move from private to state by teachers employed by these schools which could perhaps be expected if pension was the main issue with regard to where people worked. In fact, ISC stats overall show an increase in state school teachers moving to private in the last few years and a decrease the other way around.

minipie · 02/02/2024 19:13

I think it will create a two tier private schools system. The big and successful schools (often HMC schools but not always) have the money and want to retain everything they can to set themselves apart from the competition. They will have their pick of staff when recruiting and less retention issues.

But surely this has always been true? The big and successful private schools have always been able to offer better salaries, perks, job security. This is now one more way in which they can (if they wish) differentiate themselves as an employer - but it’s not like there were never any differences before.

Ladybowes · 02/02/2024 17:23

@MargeIsBack as I've said further up the thread time will tell - and with new Labour government looking more and more likely, this along with other factors should be taken very seriously if looking at independent schools.

As a teacher, I know I am biased, but I think any school that has opted out of the teacher pension scheme needs to avoided like the plague. I really don't see the attraction of teaching at an independent school now -in terms of workload between the two, it seems to be swings and roundabouts. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds over the next decade. Either way parents are right to be factoring this into their decisions.

Original poster

WombatChocolate · 02/02/2024 17:20

I think it will create a two tier private schools system. The big and successful schools (often HMC schools but not always) have the money and want to retain everything they can to set themselves apart from the competition. They will have their pick of staff when recruiting and less retention issues. For a good period, they will and can fund the extra pension costs. They have some flexibility about cost savings elsewhere - perhaps pay rises won’t be so generous or there could be other areas to make some savings. Many of the successful schools can also boost their intake a bit - a few extra kids can cover a lot of the costs. Some schools are struggling to recruit enough students and their finances are already in the balance…but there are others with queues so applicants stretching down the road and they can take more to boost their income. The market is becoming more polarised.
Already those bigger schools within the Teacher Pension find they have more applicants. Teachers check school websites to see if a school is in the Teacher Pension and many (not all) will discount schools that aren’t. In a market where teachers are leaving education in droves already and less are training, quality teachers are high up the priorities of schools.

It’s an ahead one for parents to think about. On a basic level, most will see membership of teacher pension as meaning more costs to schools and higher fees. They could think the same about higher wages which are paid in certain desirable schools. Or they could see it as a cost which delivers a benefit they want.

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MargeIsBack · 02/02/2024 16:49

Nearly all independent schools will have exited in the next couple of years. It is inevitable with the recent increase to 28.68% employer contribution. A huge number of big names have already exited and many more have announced their intention to consult. Schools have to factor many things into costs and the likely change in government, cost of living, parent affordability in addition to a pension cost they cannot control is not something most can live with and/or afford.

In terms of recruitment, this will impact those schools who left first and therefore settled at lower contribution rates more than those exiting now. Many are now offering phased withdrawal (existing teachers can stay in TPS if they wish) and the new offering to teachers are usually very generous DC schemes of up to 25% employer contributions. This is unmatched in most other sectors.

The argument that state schools will begin to look more attractive is unlikely when the whole package of benefits offered at most successful independent schools is considered.

prh47bridge · 28/01/2024 15:22

HawaiiWake · 28/01/2024 11:12

@minipie , great list, except GDST have left and only teachers there for years have TPS and not newer teachers. Saw the picket lines and had a chat with a few teachers.
Also, agree that selection of schools should include a lot of variables besides TPS. Though, I think pay and pensions etc on how teachers are treated by Head and senior staff are important.

The individual schools that are part of GDST are listed under "Independent Schools that have given notice that they intend to use the phased withdrawal from TPS", which is correct.

minipie · 28/01/2024 14:48

Oh I agree, I’m not denying the importance of teacher recruitment/retention or the impact of leaving the TPS. My point is more that schools which haven’t left the TPS yet, may well decide to in future, so it would not be sensible to choose a school on whether it has or hasn’t left at this point in time.

Ladybowes · 28/01/2024 13:44

@minipie while I agree somewhat with what you’ve said - recruitment is perhaps the most important thing in a school - anything that has a major impact on that should be viewed very seriously - the crisis in teaching is real and it’s only going to get worse - as terms and conditions get steadily eroded.

Phineyj · 28/01/2024 11:36

I've been involved in this to a high level of detail (was a staff pension consultation rep & moved from independent to state). I'm in my 50s.

I'm not sure younger staff are very bothered about pensions. Those under say 35 are more interested in salaries and housing and those with DC, in fee discounts. All are interested in well behaved students and having enough resources and working conditions generally.

It's a complex matter.

However, a recent bitter or only partially resolved pension dispute can have left a lot of bad feeling and tension. Older more experienced staff may have voted with their feet.

Always worth reading news reports on a school before deciding - state or private.

HawaiiWake · 28/01/2024 11:12

@minipie , great list, except GDST have left and only teachers there for years have TPS and not newer teachers. Saw the picket lines and had a chat with a few teachers.
Also, agree that selection of schools should include a lot of variables besides TPS. Though, I think pay and pensions etc on how teachers are treated by Head and senior staff are important.

minipie · 28/01/2024 10:44

I’ve looked up the list of those schools who have left/are going to leave/are currently staying, they are here if anyone wants.

In our local area (SW London) it seems about half or slightly more of the private secondaries have left or are in the process of leaving the TPS, including some big names. The GDST schools are a large chunk of that but by no means alone.

Given that, I wouldn’t be surprised if the rest feel they can and/or need to do the same in coming years - especially if and when the 20% VAT applies, the demographics drop kicks in, and schools are under more pressure to reduce fees and attract parents than currently. Maybe a few top schools know their clientele won’t care about fee levels, but that’s not usual.

As such, whilst I agree that teacher recruitment is very important, I would be cautious as a parent about choosing a school based on TPS membership now, as it may well change in the nearish future.

Ladybowes · 27/01/2024 21:51

As a teacher I’ve noticed a trend in the TES and Eteach where teachers go to get jobs… those institutions without teacher pensions advertising for months and months presumably because they can’t recruit! One I saw recently was on the website for nearly 8 months and is still there. When you have a shortage of teachers cutting the pension is not a great option, when teachers can shop around!!! Attractive as it may seem to a school to pull out of the scheme I believe in the long run it will be a massive mistake.

dootball · 27/01/2024 21:27

I have to agree I think this will make a difference in the future - especially to experienced staff who are still some way from retirement, as they know that leaving TPS effectively means the value of the pension will grow by 1.6% less per year - for me this would mean losing over one third of what I've paid in during the last 15 years, compared to if I stay in TPS.
It feel like, and hopefully it's true - that the state system is currently approaching the bottom in terms of funding issues / class sizes / work load , and if these things improve then moving to independent schools will become less tempting, especially if TPS is no longer on offer.

SaltySeaCat · 27/01/2024 21:01

I suspect more independent schools will be coming out or asking teachers to take a salary cut due to the further increase in employer contributions (up from 23.68% to 28.68% a further 21% increase). I don’t know any other private sector jobs with this level of employer pension contribution - it’s just not affordable.

Original poster

WombatChocolate · 02/05/2023 20:46

I’d imagine an even more tiered independent sector will emerge as a result of this.

There will be the big, often HMC senior schools. There will be the more secure Preps…larger, or linked with senior schools. They will continue in the TPS as they always have done. Their fees will be high and they will pay well and offer the TPS and have their pick of teachers. They will be successful and be increasingly popular.
And there will be the other schools - usually smaller or more financially vulnerable. Likely to include more single sex schools, more likely to be Prep schools, possibly in areas which aren’t so affluent and where less parents choose private education. There’s certainly a place for them as not all parents want or can afford the big highly selective schools. But increasingly they will find the best staff are elsewhere. Some will survive, but over time, a good number will close down - that is the trend already underway. Withdrawing from the TPS might be intended to stave that off, but in reality it might hasten what’s coming.
Private education is increasingly expensive to provide. It really is a luxury product that few can afford. Those who are on the margins of being able to afford it, increasingly look to see if what is provided is ‘worth it’ in relation to what they could get elsewhere. It’s a risky strategy to value the staff less and reduce their benefits package.

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Original poster

WombatChocolate · 02/05/2023 20:33

Older teachers with 20+ years in the pension and who expect to retire in a couple of years might stay put and not move. Those with kids in the school on discounted places might stay and not move immediately. Yes, there are things behind pensions which teachers consider.

But every year some people leave for whatever reason. They need replacing. Will teachers who are currently in a TPS school want to go to one without? Will a teacher who only has 5 years in the TPS so far, want to have the next 25 years of their career without a key benefit they could have elsewhere?

Schools which have withdrawn hope that teachers are ignorant of the benefits of the TPS. Some are ignorant of them. But most know it’s a benefit worth a vast sum of money in future pensions, if they work for a school with it for many years, and that will be lost in a school without it.

To be honest, it’s too soon to see the full effects. Looking at staffing right now, when the schools which have withdrawn have only been gone for a couple of years is too soon to see the full impact on recruitment. The roll-over of staff body takes a number of years. The impact will be seen gradually.

If you’re a non-TPS school in an area with no other independents, you might find you can still recruit, although have less applicants from local state schools than previously. Teachers who have to stay in the area for whatever reason, and who really don’t want to teach in state schools might not have much else choice. But those in state thinking of jumping ship for independent who are also stuck in the area, might think twice about doing it if the indeoendnet available is non- TPS.

In urban areas with more schools and in the SE and London where there are loads of independent schools, teachers have lots of choice about where to apply to. A school without TPS will have nearby neighbours who are still in it. It’s daft to imagine the non-TPS school will have as many applicants as the TPS school.

If I was told I’d get a £10k pay-cut next year…I’d look for another job. No surprise. Why are people surprised that taking a school out of the TPS which will make the teacher tens of thousands worse off over their full retirement, will also make people leave and make the school less attractive to apply to if looking for another job?

I suppose schools pulling out, hope parents and kids don’t notice that over time, they’ve had less choice of staff and had to employ less good candidates. They hope it won’t reflect in the learning experience or results. But of course, not attracting good teachers does make a difference.

It’s a strategy that is taken by schools who are already financially insecure and who are looking to cut corners. It’s short-sighted because the long term future of those schools relies on them performing well and attracting students. People don’t want to pay lower fees for an inferior experience. But of course, if you don’t give the staff a decent and competitive package, that’s what you’ll get. The going rate or market rate for teachers is the price of the full package of costs - that includes their salary, the NI the school has to pay, training costs, pension costs etc. if you give a package and pay for a package which costs peanuts, you’ll get monkeys!

And I intend no offence to any teacher.

We know that in all sectors, firms which pay higher rates and give packages worth more, have the choice of more candidates. Teaching is no different.

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Biscuitsneeded · 02/05/2023 19:32

I'm a teacher in an independent school. My employer took us out of TPS last year against our wishes - existing staff as well as new recruits. Recently we were advertising for a chemistry teacher and had no applicants at all. Bursar was sitting at lunch musing about why on earth all the local science teachers in state schools wouldn't prefer to work in our school - it gave me only a grim pleasure to enlighten him.
I don't want to move schools now - I'm 51 and very settled, and in lots of ways I love my school, so I have had to accept the huge dent in my pension, but I sure as hell wouldn't have taken the job 9 years ago if the school hadn't been in the TPS then.

chillypeppr · 02/05/2023 19:31

@WombatChocolate the state teachers moving to our school without TPS must have thought things through surely.

All have moved to gain significant reduction on school fees. It seems to be a strategic way of hiring new teachers. That's quite a few years before turnover happens against most private schools have a reasonable turnover of teachers due to the nature of their cohort and the opportunities granted to many teachers. Also not all teachers in private schools are qualified to work in the state sector. Many of our unqualified teachers are great too.

doglover90 · 02/05/2023 19:15

@WombatChocolate very well said 👏

AngryPurpleSleepingBag · 02/05/2023 17:06

I’m a teacher with a very elite university training in a top independent school. I will leave my school if it withdraws from the TPS. My notice will go in the very same day.