School skirts? Why is it such an issue?

doubt XelaM is a sincere poster

I feel really uncomfortable about your post. Are we in a straight position where only ‘beautiful’ (and obviously this is a subjective position) girls are permitted to wear short skirts?

Why didn't you buy it short to begin with then?

My daughter rolls her skirt and wears it short. She's a beautiful girl and the short skirt look is very flattering on her 🤷‍♀️ I don't see the harm in it at all.

Have a uniform policy stipulating short skirts and they will all wear long ones

I understand replacing uniforms a couple of times a year can be expensive as kids grow fast but what do parents generally do about home clothes kids outgrow?

The issue in cost is firstly that both school.and home clothes need to be bought so double what the child actually needs. So increasing the total cost. Poor families can only afford to buy the school uniform and so the kids have to wear uniform all the time and don't have normal clothes.

Secondly, there are so many rules about it. So if a school skirt is outgrown you have to go and buy that from a specific shop and if you wear a school skirt that is too short you can end up in isolation as a PP said has happened to her daughter after a growth spurt. If their school shoes get soaking wet walking home from school you have to put them back in the soaking wet regulation shoes the next day or they end up in isolation. If the school changes uniform (as our school just has) you have to buy a whole new set of clothes for all your children instead of being able to use hand me downs.

In comparison, when they are allowed to wear normal clothes to school if they realise they've grown out of one pair of jogggers then for most families there will be several options:

1. Putting on an alternative that is slightly bigger and still fits
2. Getting out the hand me downs from an older sibling
3. Getting out that pair of jeans that Granny bought for their birthday that was too big 6 months ago but now fits

I find it hard to believe some people can't understand the negatives of having to buy your child a second set of expensive restrictive clothing to attend education. If you need specialist clothing for work your workplace provides it (e.g. my work pays for my prescription safety specs, safety shoes and a labcoat to wear in areas where PPE is required. But otherwise I wear what I want). I bet if schools had to provide all specialist clothing to attend school they would get rid of uniforms and only provide safety clothing as appropriate. There is no evidence that wearing a school uniform improves educational outcomes. And since school uniforms for girls are so sexualised in popular culture (Delightful !) I'd say they were actively harmful for girls.

I only have very young children who aren't yet in school so not at this stage. I understand replacing uniforms a couple of times a year can be expensive as kids grow fast but what do parents generally do about home clothes kids outgrow? I guess not such an issue to change them if they become very short as parents generally don't mind if very short clothes are worn at home? It would help if there was more access to second hand cheap school clothes so more parents can afford to clothe their kids especially in a cost of living crisis :(

There are no schools without draconian uniform policies and zero parental choice or influence in the matter.

If there were schools without uniform I'd be there like a shot.

Both managing to learn stuff despite being allowed to choose their own clothing.

Exactly. Managing to learn more effectively I imagine now they aren't distracted by old fashioned, scratchy, stiff clothing.

The solution is to get rid of uniform and have a reasonable dress code but let them express their individuality through clothing if they want to. Instead of treating them as if they are in the armed forces or prison.

Maybe if schools chose a uniform that the kids actually like and feel comfortable wearing there wouldn’t be these issues.

My girls have both left secondary school now but while they were there, the uniform requirements got more and more convoluted as time went on.

When they started there it was sensible - black trousers/a line skirts with a white shirt, black V neck jumper and a grey blazer - all of which you could buy from anywhere, and just buy a logo patch from school to sew onto the blazer.

Then the year after my youngest started it became an academy and the uniform changed and it all got more and more ridiculous.

The black, A line skirt became an ugly tartan kilt that could only be bought from the school, which had to be a certain length - except size availability was rubbish and the correct size waistband for my DDs wasn’t long enough

Black trousers - the legs had to be a minimum width all the way down, anything that tapered at the ankle, even very slightly, meant isolation.

The grey blazer had to have striped lining (only available from the school uniform shop of course) because it meant staff could see if sleeves had been rolled turned up - I mean, god forbid anyone rolled their sleeves up. Couldn’t be removed, even in blazing heat, without permission from the class teacher. One memorable year, school staff were sent out around the streets at home time to make sure no one removed the bloody thing on their way home.

On the flip side, in winter, they were not allowed to wear coats to school until the permission text was sent out by the head.

I did my bit, supported the school, purchased said uniform, made sure they left the house suitably attired, but did think it was absolutely ridiculous.

As the parent of a SEN child , who spent an inordinate amount of time sorting shit out and fighting for stuff I shouldn’t have to fight for, I always thought they would have had more important things to worry about than whether DD’s blazer sleeves were rolled up, but apparently not.

One of mine is now at uni, the other at college. Both managing to learn stuff despite being allowed to choose their own clothing.

Because some girls wear their skirts so short that you can see what colour, and style, of knickers they are wearing if you walk behind them. No one needs to be walking around with their literal bum being exposed from the bottom of their skirt. (And I dread to think what the front looks like)

I mean I rolled up my skirt an inch or two so it was mid thigh. But there needs to be a limit.

If you have hips (coming from someone who has always had large hips), the last thing you want to be wearing is skinny styles trousers...

I’m going to get shot down here BUT you know the school uniform regs before your child starts. If you don’t like it maybe you should reconsider.

My daughter went to a school with a very strict uniform policy and tbh I applaud the school for upholding it. She obviously flouted it on occasions- non reg hoodie under blazer in winter etc… but she felt pride in putting it on every day - and let me tell you her going out dress code often brought a tear to me eye.

If uniform policy’s are implemented I do feel a sense of pride and belonging can follow

@crabo an inch ABOVE the knee? No way - it looks ridiculous and really unflattering on most girls. That's far to short.

my school made us wear skirts, only rules were they weren't allowed to be above knee length, most girls rolled the waist band until the back split was up their backsides and were constantly being told to pull them back down.

i rebelled the other way, i wore long skirts as there were no rules on length that way.. so i was the kid floating about in a long flowy skirt and Dr Marten boots xD

My DDs school allow skirts, trousers, or tailored shorts, nearly all the girls wear trousers.

For teen girls a skirt that is about an inch above the knee looks best and is also modest. Of course some kids will always try it on but they do about everything else. That’s life. Parents never do the kid favours by taking the kid’s side as they have ultimately to learn the lessons of life which sometimes are not fair!

The skirts in my daughters high school have to be knee length and I think they look so scruffy! They have these big, thick, pleated knee length skirts, blazers that are far to big for most of the kids & knee high socks. It honestly looks a mess when I've looked at the pictures online of the kids. My daughter rolls hers up so it just above the knee and I think it looks better. It gives the skirt more shape and doesn't looks like a big block of mess. If she's told to roll it down though she does and she knows that if she gets a detention for it then that's on her.

This ^

As with everything, it’s just much more extreme nowadays. Girls have always rolled up their skirts, but in earlier times it would have been embarrassing to know that your pants were on display. By the time I’ve walked a few meters to school with my younger kids I’ve seen the actual bum crack of several children. It’s a safeguarding issue really isn’t it? I once saw one who was unaware her whole skirt had ridden up (because it’s so short) and her whole bum and thong were on display! If underage girls were posing in their pants online most parents and teachers would be concerned. Schools must be at the absolute end of their tether. I can sympathise really with bringing in draconian rules because girls are pushing what is reasonable to the absolute extreme so that it’s indecent. It’s our job as adults to tell children what’s acceptable and what’s not in certain settings.

The easiest way to solve it is to ban skirts.
uniform can be smart trousers and polo shirts for both genders. Smart shorts for summer too to make it fair (the boys forever complain how unfair it is girls get to wear skirts whilst they have to wear trousers in heatwaves).
completely gender neutral too for those declaring themselves as trans or non binary.

My daughters school are only allowed branded skirts so there are no other options.

This is what really gets me. The schools care more about what pupils are wearing than actually teaching them. Your DD wasn't causing any trouble, and yet she’s in isolation. It's ridiculous!

Already emailed the Head and year head and am waiting a response. They have form for not responding to me though, and her Dad doesn't really care.

itsgettingweird
For the first time in forever it's now gone from outstanding to good. The learning isn't great with a lower progress 8 than other schools in the area - and this is a school feeding an area of leafy middle class dwellers who come from primaries in the same sort of area.

When your lesson starter becomes about uniform and negative points and results are affected you aren't doing it right.

It's a little disingenuous to make a like for like comparison. What used to be required for an "Outstanding" grade result under previous frameworks is nothing compared to what is expected now. The old "Outstanding" barely even compares to the new "Good".

Progress 8 must be looked at with attainment rather than in isolation. Schools with higher attaining intakes for Y7 will find it harder to generate higher Progress 8 scores than those with lower attaining intakes as the grades only go so high.