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Original poster

Difficult choice- Jags, Bromley high and Eltham

28 replies

Lingar · 11/02/2023 19:55

Which school is best for music and academic girl in year seven entry?

We got Jags offer, Bromley high music scholar offer (not much incentive but free instrument lessons), and Eltham waiting list.
Travel time is Jags over 1 hr (train and coach) - Bromley 40 minutes (coach or 50 minutes bus) - Eltham (30 minutes bus or 10 minutes drive).

We had two scholar auditions with Eltham, but she is still on the waiting list... It was our first choice. Now very tricky to wait until the deadline after. 30% girls VS 70% boys currently.
Still trying to figure out how is Jags' music (they will have a new music director from Sep 23), and they only have a few clubs and activities information online. Some negative well-being reviews on google worry me.
We also have Colfes and likely Newstead (I think they need better music).
Both Eltham and Bromley have good music programmes. But Jags has better academics than Bromley. I feel Bromley is a warm and caring school.
It is a hard decision. I hope I can get some advice here. Thanks

OP posts:
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Journey123 · 01/04/2023 20:05

Thanks so much for taking the time to go into such detail. Very much appreciated

Original poster
Lingar · 01/04/2023 18:47

Journey123 · 01/04/2023 17:14

Do you mind sharing the feedback you got in Bromley High regarding not taking up a place? We are considering it so super useful to get feedback

Sure, I got feedback from four different people/families:

  1. Friend who live in Orpington said,' A few friends of mine had to take their child out of BH and move them. Newstead has an excellent reputation and is a lot cheaper (free) :) Jags is good as well. Another friend attends. Her girl goes to Langley park did not pass Newstead.
  2. Friend two got a scholarship from both BH and Eltham, Also a full fee offer from City. Go to Eltham. She said only those who can not pass grammar schools will go to BH secondary; not worth paying the money. She said she takes BH as an absolute backup.
  3. Friend there who passed many Sutton, Newstead, Bexley top 180 and Kent. Also got 2 scholarships from Eltham (I guess a lot) and went to Eltham. She did not consider BH and told me choose from NESTEAD and Jags.
  4. One of the people on this forum has to move her girl from BH to Newstead due to some issues in also passed 11 plus.
  5. My personal experience, the offer of morning Jags and BH can not compare. Jags feels much more professional and have many structured progressions. But BH just started to build and could not answer some academic and enrichment questions. They do not have a structured programme for scholarships and enrichment. Also, most speeches were memorised not felt from the heart on that day... Totally feel different level with Jags and Eltham. But they have good music set up. If you are considering primary there, I think it is fine. But they have half size smaller secondary schools than primary because many left after 11 plus to Eltham or grammar schools.
If not for the finances and distance, we would choose Jags. We could afford it, but I do not want to depend on other family support. We could use this money got to similar academic schools and top up with activities and enrichment. I did this for primary, which was very successful. However, if we can get into Eltham with decent scholarships, that is a different story. It is doable but for very bright and skills kinds (music, art, drama, sports). I know some kids got 2-3 scholarships...
OP posts:
Journey123 · 01/04/2023 17:14

Do you mind sharing the feedback you got in Bromley High regarding not taking up a place? We are considering it so super useful to get feedback

Original poster
Lingar · 29/03/2023 15:11

larriss · 28/03/2023 23:17

@Lingar hi, may I learn which school you chose in the end?

Hi We have chosen Newstead Wood due to family changes. Jags is too far for us, no direct bus or train. Eltham did not give us an offer, it looks like very hot this year (not many girls), and they offer scholarships to attract top academic kids ... And many people told me not to select Bromley high, they also did not attract us by their offer morning.

OP posts:
larriss · 28/03/2023 23:17

@Lingar hi, may I learn which school you chose in the end?

QueenCrystal · 11/03/2023 12:26

I have a DD at BH - she has been really happy and we honestly are so pleased with the school. Music and sport amazing, lots of clubs/societies/speakers, good opportunities for trips. Teachers have been fantastic as has pastoral care. School has been incredibly supportive. DD has already decided she will stay for 6th form (as have most of her friends). Love the focus on girls' education which I think is really important. Fun, friendly and academic feel to the school. Good luck with your choice 😀

ChnandlerBong · 13/02/2023 09:31

following up from @PettsWoodParadise 's comments, every school you can name will have had serious pastoral issues in the last few years - including Newstead. There is no failsafe on that.

Also all school (including all those mentioned on here) have some stronger teachers and some weaker ones. The key is that there is a headteacher who is handling this and inspiring their staff and that there is an ethos that suits your child.

It's not all about exam results and Oxbridge entry, it's about a happy child who thrives.

365sleepstogo · 12/02/2023 20:31

To give you a rough idea - she is between Y8-10 so I don’t know how stressful GCSEs or A-levels will be but I suspect they are generally stressful wherever you are.

365sleepstogo · 12/02/2023 20:28

Lingar · 12/02/2023 18:18

Thanks so much for the information! Do they go to outside performances or join competitions(like Choir)? Do girls feel academic pressure and have no time to go to other activities? How are the relations with all girls? Yes, we can go to post offer morning to see the school again. The main issue is the commute to Jags, but good thing do not need to change the 6th forms again (They have good A-level results).

Show quote history

My DD’s main focus is not music so probably best to ask about competitions when you go on the post offer morning.
She doesn’t feel pressurised and seems to take it all in her stride. She has a lovely cohort of similarly minded friends who don’t seem to be into social media or appearances… yet.
Her day is pretty full-on through her own choices as she takes part in various sports and music clubs during lunch and after school most days and even a couple of days before school. She won’t be persuaded otherwise.
She has, however, elected to have a very chilled half term and only meet up with friends on a couple of days. Keeping busy seems to keep her out of trouble!

PettsWoodParadise · 12/02/2023 20:05

@Lingar DD didn’t fit in at BH she was bullied for liking tests and school work and not having designer items. Bear in mind DD is now in Y13 so this was a while ago. DD left early and we home educated it got so bad. Others got on well and fitted in fine.

The quality of teaching was mixed and they didn’t do differentiation well. Might have had nice buildings but give me tired buildings and teachers who know how to get the best out of bright girls any day over smart buildings. Some we know who stayed on at BH have a range of serious issues so their pastoral care is clearly lacking. Do also check the staffing status, some GDST schools have had issues since they changed their pension

ChnandlerBong · 12/02/2023 18:24

Personally wouldn’t send a girl to EC at 11. Still very boy heavy and still not a fully coed school.

Original poster
Lingar · 12/02/2023 18:18

365sleepstogo · 12/02/2023 17:49

My DD is not a music scholar but is part of a choir and music ensemble and recently there was a piano recital open to all levels. They also go on tours/trips overseas when more senior.
Will you have a chance again to contact or see the school now that you have an offer?

Thanks so much for the information! Do they go to outside performances or join competitions(like Choir)? Do girls feel academic pressure and have no time to go to other activities? How are the relations with all girls? Yes, we can go to post offer morning to see the school again. The main issue is the commute to Jags, but good thing do not need to change the 6th forms again (They have good A-level results).

OP posts:
Original poster
Lingar · 12/02/2023 18:12

HavfrueDenizKisi · 12/02/2023 16:30

I agree with looking at the commute and choosing the easiest if you're generally happy with the schools. Which does your DD prefer?

I know all those schools - Jags is the most academic I'd say (but has suffered with pastoral issues in the past: this may not be the case now); Eltham has a good reputation but I'd be concerned about the male/female ratio personally; B High is academic and the music is a strong part of that ethos.

You wouldn't have heard re Newstead yet. My DD passed with a high score there last year and still wasn't offered a place as the competition was fierce and the cut off grade extremely high. She was offered strong academic scholarships in other schools though. So the unless she was the top scorer you'd not necessarily know.

It's a tough choice so think about the whole day including commute. Good luck!

Thanks, Newstead was 225 offer mark last year and moved down to 220 on the waiting list. I do not know this year, but last year was a high offer rate compared with previous years. I heard many good marks from people. Yes, the commute is essential not to miss clubs and events. Also, everyone has a different GCSE programme/option subjects to consider.

OP posts:
Original poster
Lingar · 12/02/2023 18:03

PettsWoodParadise · 12/02/2023 15:50

Newstead have a wide range of music groups from strings, orchestra, ukulele and more. They also have connections with the BYMT which is an easy bus ride away. their selection of GCSEs and A levels os great and the new Head of PPE has done great things for that faculty.

DD was at BH Y3 to Y6. She has had a far better experience at Newstead. Currently in Y13. Newstead is also free leaving you plenty to pay for music lessons and BYMT etc.

Thanks, that is great to hear about NLW music. When I read GSG, it says, ' Music ‘used to be good’, according to students and parents, a nostalgic glint in their eyes. But we heard how ‘it’s been left by the wayside a bit since certain key teachers left’ and ‘needs a pick-me-up’. School orchestra? ‘Hmm… I’m not sure if there is one,’ said students. Choirs? ‘Possibly, for the younger years… I’m not quite sure,’ etc. The reality is they have Vox CC, gospel choir, folk group and various ensembles plus jazz band and African drumming but lack the numbers and impetus they need to excel. But the head is by no means oblivious and has plans to capitalise on the many students that play or sing to grades 6, 7 and 8.'. Maybe it gets better now as they open a new music block. The music scores are great in GCSE. However, I was not attracted when I visited the school a few months ago, especially the tired building and facilities. The deputy head can not answer if they perform music(choir) outside school. When one parent asked him, what is the best achievement of the school, he could only answer good academic results (He has worked in the school for more than 10 years!). I believe the sports are good at Newstead.
Why did your DD not like Bromley before? I heard some people say big company more prefer privately educated(they ask this kind of question on the job application), but I wonder if it is true...

OP posts:
Original poster
Lingar · 12/02/2023 17:50

VeronicaVanHoopen · 12/02/2023 13:38

I have a daughter (and a son) at EC. She couldn't be happier there. I read strange things about EC on this board - the comments sometimes seem to reflect a school that I honestly don't recognise at all! I also know lots of people happy with Bromley - it is considered less academic than Jags or EC but motivated children will do well at Bromley High. The differences are quite minimal in the grand scheme of things.

Schools are such a lottery because you never know your child's specific cohort but I don't think you can go wrong with any of these schools in general. Some are however known for specific characteristics and if your child is more prone to that than others (eg. if your daughter is very hard on herself and has perfectionist tendencies then I would say Jags might not be a great fit) then that's worth bearing in mind.

Good luck.

Thanks, very helpful, I just thought if go to Bromley may have to change A level school. EC and Jags have better 6th forms. Not sure how hard to get in at 16 later.

OP posts:
365sleepstogo · 12/02/2023 17:50

The above was in reply to @Lingar question (quote failure)

365sleepstogo · 12/02/2023 17:49

My DD is not a music scholar but is part of a choir and music ensemble and recently there was a piano recital open to all levels. They also go on tours/trips overseas when more senior.
Will you have a chance again to contact or see the school now that you have an offer?

HavfrueDenizKisi · 12/02/2023 16:30

I agree with looking at the commute and choosing the easiest if you're generally happy with the schools. Which does your DD prefer?

I know all those schools - Jags is the most academic I'd say (but has suffered with pastoral issues in the past: this may not be the case now); Eltham has a good reputation but I'd be concerned about the male/female ratio personally; B High is academic and the music is a strong part of that ethos.

You wouldn't have heard re Newstead yet. My DD passed with a high score there last year and still wasn't offered a place as the competition was fierce and the cut off grade extremely high. She was offered strong academic scholarships in other schools though. So the unless she was the top scorer you'd not necessarily know.

It's a tough choice so think about the whole day including commute. Good luck!

PettsWoodParadise · 12/02/2023 15:50

Newstead have a wide range of music groups from strings, orchestra, ukulele and more. They also have connections with the BYMT which is an easy bus ride away. their selection of GCSEs and A levels os great and the new Head of PPE has done great things for that faculty.

DD was at BH Y3 to Y6. She has had a far better experience at Newstead. Currently in Y13. Newstead is also free leaving you plenty to pay for music lessons and BYMT etc.

mum4lifer · 12/02/2023 15:28

My DD is in Year7 at JAGS. Pm me if you have any question about the school.

Norwoodmummy · 12/02/2023 14:51

I've posted on previous threads eecently but I cant speak highly enough of JAGS especially since the most recent head joined in 2020. We have two DDs there, who are both very different characters, and neither could be happier. Both growing into confident and independent young women. Can't comment on the other two as they wernt options we looked at due to travel time. I would agree with other posters - travel time is hugely important, so do factors that into your decision making. Being able to get to school in under 30 minutes and having opinions e.g bus if there is a train strike can make a huge difference to the DCs - or indeed an easy car journey for late night pick ups, concerts and events etc

VeronicaVanHoopen · 12/02/2023 13:39

BTW I agree that the commute shouldn't be overlooked - school is pretty demanding these days - go for the easiest commute you can!

VeronicaVanHoopen · 12/02/2023 13:38

I have a daughter (and a son) at EC. She couldn't be happier there. I read strange things about EC on this board - the comments sometimes seem to reflect a school that I honestly don't recognise at all! I also know lots of people happy with Bromley - it is considered less academic than Jags or EC but motivated children will do well at Bromley High. The differences are quite minimal in the grand scheme of things.

Schools are such a lottery because you never know your child's specific cohort but I don't think you can go wrong with any of these schools in general. Some are however known for specific characteristics and if your child is more prone to that than others (eg. if your daughter is very hard on herself and has perfectionist tendencies then I would say Jags might not be a great fit) then that's worth bearing in mind.

Good luck.

Original poster
Lingar · 12/02/2023 13:27

365sleepstogo · 12/02/2023 09:52

I would go with the commute!

I have a DD at JAGS - lots of music ensembles, academic and my DD loves it - and, from what I have heard, it is better than Bromley in both these respects, esp academics. I know very little about Eltham - doesn’t being shortlisted for scholar interview mean that she has a place?

However, the commute will impact her overall experience and the ability to make the most of everything a school has to offer.

Thanks so much for sharing your experiences. If you did not get a music scholarship, would you still have many opportunities to perform with Jags at the events(internal and external)? We are not orchestra style but more vocal and piano. My DD went to both art (2nd round) and music auditions with Eltham, we thought at least we will get an offer, but still on the waiting list although we reached the required standard of academics. They said There were over 450 applications... Sounds a bit strange, this is how it is and they can not tell you the position and if will get in until the deadline end which is many schools has the same deadline...

OP posts:
365sleepstogo · 12/02/2023 09:52

I would go with the commute!

I have a DD at JAGS - lots of music ensembles, academic and my DD loves it - and, from what I have heard, it is better than Bromley in both these respects, esp academics. I know very little about Eltham - doesn’t being shortlisted for scholar interview mean that she has a place?

However, the commute will impact her overall experience and the ability to make the most of everything a school has to offer.