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Original poster

Feedback on SPGS

115 replies

TwoSpoonsofSugar · 11/02/2023 06:59

Would love to hear feedback from those with a child currently there. My daughter was offered an 11+ place to start in Y7. We were late entrants in that we had not been considering it but she wanted to have a go and we ended up applying just before the deadline closed. It meant we were too late to get a place on any Open Days so I haven't actually been around the school, met the Head or staff etc.

DD is naturally very academic and self motivated to learn. We didn't tutor for SPGS. By that, I mean not even at home. We are fortunate that the 11+ has been a fairly relaxed process for us. Now I'm torn. She already has an offer from a good private school within easy walking distance. SPGS would be 40 mins on the tube but she says she doesn't mind that. I commute myself for work and worry she'll regret come to regret the commute. Right now, she's able to walk home in less than 30 minutes.

DD would like to go to SPGS. I have asked her why. She says she loves going to school - she does and always has - and she knows it's a great school where she can be surrounded by girls who can keep up. At her current school it is true she isn't stretched. It is supposedly academic but she's been coasting but we've been okay with that so far.

I am worried about the school commute. I am worried that she won't have local friends as girls from SPGS come from all over the place. Equally, I don't want DD to think I've held her back from going to a school she'd prefer. I have stressed that she'd have a commute. That it's unlikely she'd have peers living round the corner to hang out with during school holidays. She says that's fine. SPGS is also more expensive but we could afford it but it means not moving to a bigger house or fancy holidays. I ask myself if the extra cost and sacrifices is worth it? If a girl is bright, wouldn't they do well anywhere? Or is the value of SPGS in its quality of teaching? My own background is that I went to a terrible state school where very little learning was done as class time was too disruptive. SPGS is a whole new world to me and I worry that DD will feel like the poor kid in comparison. We tend to go camping in the UK for our holidays and drive an old car. We live in a smallish house but it means we can budget for SPGS. I don't want DD to go there and suddenly feel she's the poor one. I get that it's all relative and perhaps it's me projecting but it would be nice to know if there are lots of families on modest incomes there too.

We don't anyone else with girls there so it's hard to get real feedback. I have read mixed reviews about girls who thrive. Girls who leave due to the academic pressures.

DD is lovely, kind girl who is naturally academic and enjoys learning. She seems to cope well under pressure. Will there be lots of low key girls like her? Or are they all super confident, competitive alpha types?

Sorry for rambling. In a wobble as you can tell! I don't want to hold her back because of my own insecurities. Like all parents, I want her to be happy and in the right school for her. I'm asking for feedback in the hope it will help guide me in making this decision. All feedback, positive and negative, welcome.

Thank you so much in advance and feel free to PM me! 🙏

OP posts:
FriendlyMom · 12/06/2023 10:36

@Coronateachingagain this is a serious statement - 1/3 of the whole student body - this is a significant number. How did you “hear” about it? Is your daughter at SPGS?

PreplexJ · 11/06/2023 23:54

DD said the canteen is super mordern (her state primary is dilapidated) and the food is yummy - but then the application fee is 100 quid more than other school.

No not swayed by that at all.

BonjourCrisette · 11/06/2023 23:51

It is impossible to know 100% sure unless the school releases stats which I doubt they will do.

So where did you get your stats, then? Or did you just make them up?

I am really not sure how many parents who are either considering or ruling out St Paul's are likely to be swayed by amazing food. But for the avoidance of doubt, the food is really really good.

Coronateachingagain · 11/06/2023 23:19

bjmin · 10/06/2023 20:39

@Coronateachingagain oh my goodness, your statement that you "heard that about a quarter to a third of students at SPGS have had or have some sort of ED" is so alarming. Is that school doing anything about that? If 1 out of 3 girls is suffering from ED, then that is truly sad. @Coronateachingagain thank you so much for the insights!

Of course they must be and would try as much as posible. But I think that some of this comes with the profile of these hyper intelligent girls. Schools should not be fully blamed for ED problems. It is impossible to know 100% sure unless the school releases stats which I doubt they will do. But the "amazing canteen" marketing point is interesting to say the least

bjmin · 10/06/2023 20:39

@Coronateachingagain oh my goodness, your statement that you "heard that about a quarter to a third of students at SPGS have had or have some sort of ED" is so alarming. Is that school doing anything about that? If 1 out of 3 girls is suffering from ED, then that is truly sad. @Coronateachingagain thank you so much for the insights!

Original poster
TwoSpoonsofSugar · 10/06/2023 19:11

@Coronateachingagain do you mind me asking where you heard this from? A quarter to a third is incredibly high and I'm wondering how these stats have been arrived at. I'm not naive to assume that ED don't exist at schools. They do especially at all girls schools and ones where there's a pressurised academic environment. I am quite alarmed if it is as a high as a third at SPGS though so curious to know where this data comes from 😥

OP posts:
Coronateachingagain · 10/06/2023 16:15

laurasparrows · 08/06/2023 21:36

Hi, mum of an SPGS girl here - know the school very well. It is not a healthy environment. I believe SPGS can be a good for some people and the excellent league table ranking makes it attractive, but here are some other factors to consider:

  • the academic pressure is real and while it’s not directly the fault of staff, I believe it culminates from the environment being saturated so many bright children. Academics are valued here and there will naturally be students who perform more highly than your daughter in some areas. As a result, most students struggle with feeling academically inadequate and are worn out.
  • pastoral care has been horrible from personal experience.
  • not economically diverse and most kids are spoilt. While the school is trying to change its economic makeup, the overall culture is still dominated by people who have had an unusually rich upbringing and my daughter complains about the commonplace entitled behaviour from other students
  • eating disorders are VERY commonplace. my daughter knows almost no one who has not had some kind of issue with food.
  • I believe the good academic results come from the pupils they select rather than the quality of teaching. The teaching is certainly good at SPGS but certainly not a cut above other private schools in West London. A few of the teachers are actually quite poor, although to their credit they all seem to care about students and are willing to try their best to help them if they have a problem understanding something.
  • don’t think the high academic standards make it a tolerant environment for shy girls who are more academically than socially oriented - it is unfortunately just as cliquey as any other school and the girls here are judgemental of one another.

Happy to elaborate if you message me.

Overall, I would advise not to undervalue the importance of the pastoral. For your daughter to thrive, she must be happy. It can be a great school for some but it is definitely not a “warm” environment.

I also heard that about a quarter to a third of students at SPGS have had or have some sort of ED. Not sure what the stats are at other schools, but clearly something going on there. Which may not be entirely the school's fault by the way. The school tour places a lot of emphasis on how cool is the canteen for instance. They know their clientele and may be making an effort to support the girls.

FriendlyMom · 09/06/2023 20:39

It would be fair for parents from other schools to share their feedback. It is really interesting how SPGS is so frequently in the eye of the hurricane.

SamPoodle123 · 09/06/2023 19:35

PreplexJ · 09/06/2023 15:00

Perhaps time for mums from NLCS/ CLGS/SHHS to comment how widespread or systemic the ED issues in the schools?

I think this can be a problem at any school. I was told by a friend a while back it was happening at the schools frequently mentioned on mumsnet and this was over 20 years ago!!

BonjourCrisette · 09/06/2023 17:03

@hampsteadmum "Academic pressure comes usually from within or the family. If the child consistently underperforms there will be discussions of course as the school may not be the right fit. I saw someone mention Maths sets. To illustrate my point of no pressure from the school, early on the school placed my daughter at the middle set in Maths. She asked if she could actually be placed in one of the bottom sets as she wanted an easy life (and hated maths at the time). The school obliged. She got 9 in her Maths GCSEs and has an Uni offer from Cambridge."

This very much chimes with our experience. DD was in the bottom set for Maths initially, having hated Maths in the MIV (Y7) which may have seemed like a catch up year to some but actually involved her learning quite a number of new things at breakneck pace from her perspective, having come from a very average state primary (a decent school but with pretty low numbers of higher achievers). She was delighted to be in the bottom set for Maths with a slightly gentler pace and started to really enjoy it.

She's doing Additional Maths this year by choice (which is a level 3 qualification to give you some idea of what the spread of ability really means in terms of the 'bottom' set) and was seriously considering Maths A Level at one point. She moved up to the middle set to access the Additional Maths content at her own request and is flying with it. She just needed a bit more time to get up to speed and the school was happy to work with her so that she has always been in the set she needed to be in for the work she wanted to be doing.

The only academic pressure she's suffered from has come from her own very strong desire to do her best. Sometimes I have to tell her to put the books down for a bit. Sometimes the school tells them to put the books down for a bit (eg before GCSE mocks when they were strongly encouraged not to even start revising until a couple of weeks beforehand).

bjmin · 09/06/2023 16:33

Agreed, that's a good point. It doesn't seem that other mums talk about ED at other schools on the forums very much.

PreplexJ · 09/06/2023 15:00

Perhaps time for mums from NLCS/ CLGS/SHHS to comment how widespread or systemic the ED issues in the schools?

hampsteadmum · 09/06/2023 14:52

My post was not in response to yours but to the poster's that spoke of ED "systemic within SPGS". As to the guidance this is more about guiding your daughters as to the general principles to adopt when choosing friends but also on other life issues. Not specific guidance as to whether to befriend "Jennifer" or "Amy". 😀

HawaiiWake · 09/06/2023 14:41

hampsteadmum · 09/06/2023 14:02

I disagree that ED issues are systemic within SPGS. I speak as a mum of a 6th former, currently (literally this minute) sitting her A levels (so 7 years at the school). They exist for sure, but are not more wide spread than in other schools. There are similar issues at at other schools I am familiar with like NLCS, CLGS. SHHS etc. In fact I know of severe cases at CLGS where girls have been hospitalised. This is a non school specific phenomenon. SPGS deals with these issues well in my opinion and even offer sessions with trained psychologists.

Many girls are entitled, I am sure. No more than in other private schools though that I know of both personally and professionally. The key is for your daughters to recognise such behaviours and call them our or simply avoid these girls.

Academic pressure comes usually from within or the family. If the child consistently underperforms there will be discussions of course as the school may not be the right fit. I saw someone mention Maths sets. To illustrate my point of no pressure from the school, early on the school placed my daughter at the middle set in Maths. She asked if she could actually be placed in one of the bottom sets as she wanted an easy life (and hated maths at the time). The school obliged. She got 9 in her Maths GCSEs and has an Uni offer from Cambridge.

I do recognise however that everyone's experience is different. It is important to guide your girls as to the values they are important to you and help them stand for themselves and those values if you sense problems. The problems arise when girls feel they need to "fit in" with certain girl groups that perhaps do not share the same values. Guide your girls to form friendship groups with those who do share similar values.

Yes, which I stated, no matter which school watch out for ED. I didn’t name schools or finger points which year group. Though do people really guide their kids’ friendship groups in secondary schools?

hampsteadmum · 09/06/2023 14:02

I disagree that ED issues are systemic within SPGS. I speak as a mum of a 6th former, currently (literally this minute) sitting her A levels (so 7 years at the school). They exist for sure, but are not more wide spread than in other schools. There are similar issues at at other schools I am familiar with like NLCS, CLGS. SHHS etc. In fact I know of severe cases at CLGS where girls have been hospitalised. This is a non school specific phenomenon. SPGS deals with these issues well in my opinion and even offer sessions with trained psychologists.

Many girls are entitled, I am sure. No more than in other private schools though that I know of both personally and professionally. The key is for your daughters to recognise such behaviours and call them our or simply avoid these girls.

Academic pressure comes usually from within or the family. If the child consistently underperforms there will be discussions of course as the school may not be the right fit. I saw someone mention Maths sets. To illustrate my point of no pressure from the school, early on the school placed my daughter at the middle set in Maths. She asked if she could actually be placed in one of the bottom sets as she wanted an easy life (and hated maths at the time). The school obliged. She got 9 in her Maths GCSEs and has an Uni offer from Cambridge.

I do recognise however that everyone's experience is different. It is important to guide your girls as to the values they are important to you and help them stand for themselves and those values if you sense problems. The problems arise when girls feel they need to "fit in" with certain girl groups that perhaps do not share the same values. Guide your girls to form friendship groups with those who do share similar values.

Original poster
TwoSpoonsofSugar · 09/06/2023 11:51

@PreplexJ I actually first heard about Atom from my friends at state school who were all using it outside of school! You can pay a subscription fee which is much cheaper than school fees. Lol!

OP posts:
PreplexJ · 09/06/2023 11:37

@TwoSpoonsofSugar It is good to know that, thanks.

Just learn that Atom learning does have a special product called Atom prime which is free for primary school to use as general curriculum and practice purpose. I really hope a lot of more state school (not just 11+) to access this (or similar product) to enhance the students learning experience.

Original poster
TwoSpoonsofSugar · 09/06/2023 11:22

@PreplexJ I've no idea what other private all through schools do. My DD's school was pretty relaxed to be honest and I feel lucky that DD had such an easy 11+ experience. They just had Maths homework on Atom once a week in the last term. I don't even think it was geared towards the 11+ but there's an algorithm so questions are calibrated for the student's level. I also think Atom was used as much to keep it online versus printing out paper sheets and sticking them in workbooks. To be honest, it seemed to be less than what friends from state schools were doing who were subscribing to and using Atom and tutors outside of school.

@HighRopes that's good advice. My DD has no desire to be top of the pack but we're definitely prepping her to understand that there will be lots and lots of bright girls there. She really likes learning hence why we thought SPGS would be a good fit. We just want her to be happy and, most importantly, make some really nice friends with similar values to us and who could be friends for life. Do parents really punish daughters who aren't in the top set at maths? 😧

@HawaiiWake so true. With the rise in social media and our kids' exposure to it, it's definitely something to worry about. My close friend in high school suffered badly from anorexia and I have adult friends - male and female - who have unhealthy relationships with food. I know it can be more of an issue in girls' schools and it's actually something I did ask SPGS about in terms of how they monitor and safeguard against this.

Thanks everyone for the insights. No school is perfect and it can also depend on the cohort you're in which is an element of luck as well. Again, I'm sorry @laurasparrows that your DD has not had a good experience. I really hope she's okay and wish you both all the best.

Ultimately, if it doesn't work out for us, we will move our DD.

OP posts:
BonjourCrisette · 09/06/2023 10:43

But please do not tell me the other issues I mentioned are not “real issues” because they absolutely are from what I’ve seen amongst my DD’s cohort.

Sorry, just wanted to clarify that I absolutely am not suggesting the issues weren't real for you and were not a problem for your poor daughter. I just wanted to say that it's not something we have experienced. I sincerely hope our experience is more common than yours and wish both of you all the very best.

bjmin · 09/06/2023 08:58

@laurasparrows thank you for sharing your experience with the school. It sounds absolutely dreadful that your DD has had to endure six years in such a poorly suited environment. Spending 6-7 years in such a state must be really difficult. Thanks again for sharing and I hope she's okay. All the best.

HawaiiWake · 09/06/2023 08:31

No matter which school, please watch out for ED, serious and long term health implications. The new thing is clean, eating which reduces food group and about being healthy…could lead to ED. Friends’ kids with ED, years of therapy and university flat mates calling worried etc etc.

HighRopes · 09/06/2023 08:11

It’s a good fit for some and not for others. Like Bonjour, my dd is a few years in and I’ve not seen evidence of widespread eating disorders, bullying has been dealt with promptly and the pastoral care has been good when I’ve needed to use it. I appreciate others will have different experiences.

I do think that the the school’s reputation can create problems. Some parents want the name, and so don’t necessarily think as hard about the fit for their daughter. It would be a tough place to be if you wanted to be effortlessly top at everything. Or even if you wanted to work hard and be top at something.

I worry that parents who punish test results that aren’t top and who care lots about which Maths set their daughter is in make this worse, and pile pressure upon their daughters which can lead to difficult behaviours. Though of course some of it is just teenage girls being, as a cohort, relatively susceptible to issues like eating disorders.

OP My best advice is to prepare your dd for being one of the pack academically,
musically, in sport etc. if she isn’t, she’ll be pleasantly surprised. If she is, then it’s important to make very clear to her that that’s fine with you, as long as she’s working a reasonable amount and having fun (whatever form fun takes for her - could be lacrosse or choir or maths club, or all three).

PreplexJ · 09/06/2023 07:54

From the thread sounds like OP's DD is from a private all through school.

Does private through school set Atom learning practice for 11+ nowadays?

Original poster
TwoSpoonsofSugar · 09/06/2023 05:37

OP here.

@laurasparrows your response is now making me anxious. Thanks for your feedback and certainly these are issues that I think are prevalent and we need to watch out for all in all high schools. I'm truly sorry your DD hasn't had a positive experience at SPGS. The eating issue is something that's top of mind for me. The academic pressure I'm currently less concerned about as DD's friends are all super bright and perform as well, sometimes better, than her and it doesn't bother her at all. She's happy that they can all work at similar paces. Luckily, DD enjoys and finds studying easy so keeping up shouldn't be an issue. She got in entirely off her own back. No tutoring and no extra work beyond the Atom her current school set to prepare for the 11+ so we think (and hope) she'll be fine with the academic rigour. I don't naively think that schools like SPGS get their results because of excellent teaching. We're at an academically selective school now and I can already see that it's the girls that get these results rather than it being down to exceptional teaching. What we liked about SPGS was the ethos, the liberal thinking and the ability for students to learn at greater depth. However, EDs, pastoral care and lack of economic diversity/entitled behaviour are our concerns we share and I am especially worried about whether there would be enough "middle income" earners like us. We live very modestly to afford the school fees. Small house, camping rather than ski trips kind of thing but still a very comfortable life and that's the thing we always emphasize to our kids. However, we didn't want to deny DD SPGS (it's what she wanted) on the basis that lots of wealthy children can go there so we'd be in the minority. Economic diversity has to start somewhere. Again, thanks for the feedback. We've accepted already but, equally, it's good to go in with eyes wide open :) Our back up plan is that if DD doesn't get on with it (or we notice that her mental health is being impacted), we will wait for an ad hoc place to come up at her old school and reapply as they'd love to have her back.

@BonjourCrisette I truly hope that my DD has the same positive experience as your DD. I definitely agree with your comment about swings and roundabouts. I went to an appalling state school as we lived in a deprived area. It's been shut down now and abolished. As I was a bright child, I sailed through the academics and got stellar results (I wouldn't say that was down to the teaching) with a couple of academic scholarships thrown in. However, I walked out of high school without any real aspirations (no careers guidance at all), confidence, guidance on next steps and certainly poorly equipped to deal with the real world in terms of social skills. My grades got me into a top uni and that's definitely where the shock came in! After years effortlessly being top of the class academically, I was suddenly very much the bottom pack! I also didn't have the skills my uni peers had: ability to think independently and critically, self belief and confidence in my own abilities etc. I actually almost failed my first year at uni as a result😬

OP posts:
laurasparrows · 09/06/2023 00:53

Glad to hear your DD is doing so well! It’s so good to have parents who recognise that 7s are fine, children don’t have to get all 9s to be brilliant and that they are still bright even if they go to a school full of other brilliant children.

But please do not tell me the other issues I mentioned are not “real issues” because they absolutely are from what I’ve seen amongst my DD’s cohort. While every school struggles with certain issues, there are certain problems that I think are systemic within SPGS. For example on the issue of EDs, it is probably because (for whatever reason) so many girls who go to the school seem to be thin that there is a more pervasive culture of body issues. Thinness is “the norm” there and is unfortunately prioritized by students over their wellbeing. There is definitely also an entitled culture within my daughter’s year although this might be present in other private schools - I don’t know. And I have heard firsthand of bullying not being handled effectively. Hopefully this is just due to a few bad apples on the team but I thought better let parents know and make an informed choice!

Obviously there are lots of lovely people there, students and staff alike, but compared to other West London private schools it doesn’t strike me as being as “standout” as some Mumsnet frequenters think. The academic benefits of such a rigorous school should be balanced and considered against the negative side of the school, which fewer people are aware of. Most of my DD’s friends there have serious issues which is pretty sad.

Glad you are being a great parent to your DD and making her so aware that she is a bright young girl no matter what. Carry on doing that as that is exactly what we should all be doing!