School behaviour policy and scope of authority

Clarification: my school growing up. This was part of the behaviour policy we signed

My school used to define a school event as sanctioned or unsanctioned and where five or more students have gathered. There was a reach into parties and several students did get punished for things that happened at homes on weekends.

What really saddens me about this post is the complete lack of awareness of the impact of using "offensive race related language" as you call it OP and how it impacts those at the receiving end of it.

So here is a personal experience and hopefully after reading this you will understand why the school took the stance that they did.

A child from my DD's primary school said to her that they didn't want to play with her because she is black In year 1. I will never forget the day because it changed my DD's view of the world. My DD came home and asked me, "Am I black? Aged 6, I had to explain to her that we are all human beings, but with different skin colours. This is a conversation many have never and will never have to have with their DC but unfortunately a regular occurance for others. Her view of the world changed because of a statement from another 6 year old who was most likely repeating something they had heard in private.

Subsequent conversations about school have since been I played with x who looks like me or y who looks like Ms T whilst before this incident it was simply i played with X and Y.

So let's teach our DCs to be mindful of the language they use not because it is illegal but because those at the receiving end feel hurt and pain.

So OP using racist language, whether in private or outside the home, on snapchat or on Twitter is not acceptable. It's not banter or for a laugh with mates. Children display what they see and hear at home and those at the receiving end are human beings who equally deserve respect. Sue the school for not following due process should you wish to, but take the time to educate your son on why such language is unacceptable and reasons why the school took the action that it did.

Honestly it sounds like the OP would be fine with a teacher making racist comments. Or anybody, really.

Let's imagine a teacher outside of school posted a video of themselves making racist comments. Would you feel the same? No thought not. I think you need to focus instead on the fact that your ds is pissed and making offensive comments about his peers.

Sharing the video is not illegal.

It isn't making and distributing indecent images of a minor I assume?

A school does not have to meet legal requirements for proof or follow due process in order to decide to exclude a pupil. The exclusion panel for PEX or the relevant senior member of staff for fixed term exclusions has to be convinced that the offence happened. I'm assuming the video was shared in school, and most schools will have a cyber bullying policy. Give your son a sanction for being racist and send him back with an apology prepared for the pupil to whom he was despicable.

The school wasn't withholding the footage illegally, they were withholding it as the OP hadn't put in the correct formal request for it.

What has your racist son learned from this?

I think you need to stop wasting time questioning school policy and look closer to home. Your son needs to learn from this not have you make excuses.

So your son, whilst sober and supervised by you, made racist remarks in a setting where he can reasonably expect to be filmed, and was likely aware of it (I’m going to assume his mates weren’t secretly recording him with a pen camera), and you think the problem is that the school has dared to sanction him with a bloody light sanction?

Im not racist because my friend is black is a ridiculous defence.

Frankly, whether or not anyone targeted saw it to take offence is irrelevant. Those thoughts crossed his mind, apparently whilst sober, and he thought it acceptable to say.

He was racist, and all you’re doing is showing him that the school is the problem, not him. Stop defending him and start working on his attitudes.

He’s a kid and needs to be modelled appropriate attitudes, and you’re not doing that. Thank god the school has stepped up before the police are involved.

Meanwhile some poor teacher or pastoral member of staff has had to deal with this shit all week. The toing and froing from the OP based on an incident that shouldn't have happened in the first place. Schools aren't the police, but they do have behaviour expectations. They don't have the resources of the police to investigate everything in police terms. You're bloody lucky it didn't go to the police and your son doesn't have a warning for racism.

You sound hard work. Take a step back, accept your son was wrong and crack on with your life.

"level of offense caused" is irrelevant, and context is irrelevant.

Racist remarks have been made and offense has been caused, its open and shut

one of the non-white boys on group shared with his parents who raised a concern over the offensive language to the school.

Reverse the situation @Smeeth: What if your DS had to go to school, knowing another boy had made offensive racist slurs about him?

It's bullying. Your DS was out of order and YABU. Take the punishment and learn fro. it.

If my DS were making stupid racist slurs (to show off?) I'd be taking a long hard look at myself and my values.

God, you sound like a total nightmare, OP. So self-righteous and pompous and asserting total nonsense dressed up as legal knowledge when your 15 year old son was filmed slurring racial abuse, despite being supervised by 'yourself' (the word 'myself' is not a formal version of 'me' by the way, though your use of it added beautifully to the overall impression created).

You really ought to just home school him. You remind me of a parent I spoke to last week who would not accept that her son was excluded for calling a teacher a fucking slag as there were not witnesses to the event, so it was her word against his, which isn't good enough, apparently.

We are not police officers, it's not a court of law, stop focussing on whether 'the school' dealt with something the way you think they should and deal with your kids!

OP as a separate issue - if you think the school has not conducted a fair investigation that is different. You can look at the behaviour policy and their investigation policy and ensure they have followed it properly. If they haven't, then you can raise it as a concern and state where you think they haven't followed policy.

But it does sound like racist remark on a video is fairly open and shut. You son has also admitted it, so it's not like it's a deepfake or anything.

Quite. And then probably to be wheeled out again in 20 years time to say he's a racist and shouldn't be in a certain job.

So many sanctimonious comments on this thread. As if you didn't do stupid things as teenagers (and no, I don't believe you weren't ever racist, either - everyone was and arguably still is, but that's for another discussion)). The only reason people got away with it was because we didn't have smartphones videoing the behaviour everywhere.

I have a certain amount of sympathy that private behaviour outside school not in school uniform or on a trip should not be sanctioned by the school.

I think the parents should have complained to the police rather than to the school. A visit from a stern police officer would be more useful than a school exclusion in my view anyway.

However, OP, what were you thinking letting them drink alcohol? Why do parents do that? Alcohol fuels stupid behaviour!

Get him to read Adam Rutherford's boo How to argue with a racist. It is a very good book.

That is not following my reasoning. There is a clear difference between
making racist remarks and being negative about a teacher.

it clearly caused offense to have been recorded and shared. It is a hate crime. If it was views by those present as innocuous, it wouldn't have been recorded and shared. You dont get to commit a hate crime on social media and remain in your institution of employment or education. It seems pretty clear cut to me, not OTT at all, the normal result of a hate crime

That's a bit OTT - he is 15 and about to start his exams. You would ruin this child's education and the likely ramifications with a permanent exclusion? If what happened is as OP said then the school seem to have dealt with it very well and quick. I would hope they know the child and his usual conduct to make that assessment. It is about educating him and the consequences should be proportional. How does a permanent exclusion teach him anything about racism.
My only query is that OP was trying to minimise in that the boy who shared the video should also have been sanctioned alongside her son.

Nowadays schools are expected to deal with everything. Things in school and out. Parenting, manners, eating with a knife and fork, toilet training.
It’s not really fair on schools as they haven’t got the resources plus parents only give them grief either way.

I am very surprised it is only a fixed term exclusion. Are you sure it isn't a fixed term exclusion pending a review? It should be a permanent exclusion, and possibly a police report. That is what would happen in our school, and in fact did happen last year, but the fixed term exclusion was the first, holding measure, while the situation was reviewed by the MAT.

I hope he is expelled - that is what should happen, that is the only fair outcome for the other children at the school

Good, thank you for the update

prh47bridge

Putting aside the specific situation and talking more generally (which is what OP meant anyway), suppose I am a pupil, at home, with my friends. We chat and I say that my physics teacher is stupid. Later it turns out that one of my friends took a video and sent it to the teacher. Following the reasoning you laid out, I should be investigated and the school should punish me for this remark.

Do you agree that a 15-year old is not allowed to say anything negative about their teachers when talking to friends privately?