"My parents dont let me watch the news": reflections on 11+ interviews I have carried out

Yes, exactly this. I think maybe parents feel a bit bruised when realising that perhaps their child is not gifted (even though very bright and hardworking/academic). They shouldn't.

I have bright kids but they're not gifted. If you find yourself asking if your child is gifted, they probably aren't as when you see one, you know one. They're the kids that have opinions (tend to like a debate and argue their point) and connect things you yourself would not even see.

Kids that are gifted are generally not only recognised by their own immediate family as such but you will find other people - teachers/coaches/strangers -comment on their ability. These kids seem to know things adults do which means that you can hold an adult conversation with them from a very early age.

A child who does nothing but 11+ revision isn't hot housing??

If I was selecting kids for a very selective school or much later in life for university, I would expect them to have an opinion about something in the news, I would pitch it age appropriate, but it would be random - I'd ask a 10 year old, Space X have just tested the most powerful rocket in human history, what do you think about that? They don't need to know all about Space X, who Elon Musk is, what contracts Space X have , what the rocket is called (Starship) but I would expect a bright child to have an opinion.

I don't know why posters on here can't seem to grasp this is a sign of a bright child, its not receiving an answer that tick boxes, its more abstract than that- having a conversation beyond what's tested in entrance exams to look for signs of a spark.

Yes, spot on.

Having 9 A is probably more likely to be on the gifted scale but not necessarily. 25% of kids at my nephew's school achieve all 9s (A*). Not all are gifted, probably many are but some are simply very, very, very hard working and come from families where academics trumps extra curricular activities and a social life).

You can have an above IQ (if able/highly able) and do very, very well academically if you put in the hours.

High IQ would normally suggested gifted but there are levels - mildly, moderate, high, profound. I would expect a child with an IQ above 135 to display many of the gifted characteristics above.

Unless incredibly pushed/tutored as you can increase IQ scoring with practice (not that much but a bit).

I also expect super selective to pay more attention to English/VR scores as there is so much tiger parenting about now and maths is one area where, with constant repetition, you can score relatively highly (so get a perfect score in the 'usual' maths questions but never solve those final, puzzle hard questions) whereas harder to do in English/VR (but of course if you spend hours doing vocab training you can bypass that as well to an extent).

I really don’t think it is. No hot housing here, and a lot of self styled learning - just not current affairs.

Still that list below can be met. Ime of selective school it’s not a great question, and what they did use made more sense.

Asking children about current affairs, what's going on in the world, is the exact way you weed out hot house kids that aren't gifted. As @Bitteplease posted, gifted kids reveal themselves pretty easily. The parents of a gifted child don't need to tutor them to the eyeballs to pass an 11+ for a kick off, a truly gifted child would be bored swotting constantly for 11+ anyway, goes back to the curiosity.

Super selective grammars have such larger number of applicants than expensive public schools, they have to fall back on top 11+ marks to cull the numbers.

Somewhere like Eton or Harrow can rely on interviews and exam performance.

That's very interesting @Bitteplease , you answered my question before I asked it. So having a very high IQ or all 9/A* does not mean someone is gifted, right?

As I say, my DC are fairly academic but not gifted. But here is some more info. I think this is what the super selective are trying to assess at interview, hard to fake (even for tiger families!):

Common Characteristics of Gifted Individuals
Because gifted children are so diverse, not all exhibit all characteristics all of the time. However, there are common characteristics that many gifted individuals share:
Unusual alertness, even in infancy
Rapid learner; puts thoughts together quickly
Excellent memory
Unusually large vocabulary and complex sentence structure for age
Advanced comprehension of word nuances, metaphors and abstract ideas
Enjoys solving problems, especially with numbers and puzzles
Often self-taught reading and writing skills as preschooler
Deep, intense feelings and reactions
Highly sensitive
Thinking is abstract, complex, logical, and insightful
Idealism and sense of justice at early age
Concern with social and political issues and injustices
Longer attention span and intense concentration
Preoccupied with own thoughts—daydreamer
Learn basic skills quickly and with little practice
Asks probing questions
Wide range of interests (or extreme focus in one area)
Highly developed curiosity
Interest in experimenting and doing things differently
Puts idea or things together that are not typical
Keen and/or unusual sense of humor
Desire to organize people/things through games or complex schemas
Vivid imaginations (and imaginary playmates when in preschool)

As I said, nothing wrong at all with not watching news or having other interest instead. I was just trying to make the point that giftedness tends to make kids look for stuff about the world, global current affairs etc. But the rest of us should not seek this out, let it be child led, I say.

Just thought I'd share this:

Common Characteristics of Gifted Children:

Ability to comprehend material several grade levels above their age peers

Surprising emotional depth and sensitivity at a young age

Strong sense of curiosity

Enthusiastic about unique interests and topics

Quirky or mature sense of humor

Creative problem solving and imaginative expression

Absorbs information quickly with few repetitions needed

Self-aware, socially aware, and aware of global issues

Not uncommon for gifted children to be disorganised (think of the cliche of the professor with stacks of notes/books covering their desk - it's not always true but quite common trait).

I don't watch the news - I find the images of dead children etc absolutely disrespectful. I read a newspaper, get the radio headlines etc.

My 9 year old watches an Irish children's news programme everyday and my oldest 15 would catch up online - Irish Times etc. I agree they need to be informed but the TV news is too graphic and I nor my children need those images in our heads. They remain informed and engaged - watching the news is not a skill - being informed is.

Yes parents definitely shelter children more now - because we have to. Years ago graphic images were not pumped into our homes on the hour every hour.

Dc seeking out new things made might not be current affairs though. It could be maths videos for example. Or whatever the interest is. It’d be a pity to use news as the decider when interest can be in something else

@LolaSmiles

I know many children who care about the oceans, recycling, saving energy, conservation, donating to the local food bank, the importance of local charities or causes close to their family's heart. Some are interested in science or history and the developments in those areas. One child I know is fascinated by space exploration. Their families talk about topics with them, support the child to develop their interests, they get children's news publications or NatGeo kids or books on the topics they're interested in. They might not sit around watching the goings on in the budget at the age of 9, or had daily updates on Putin's foreign policy, but they are kind, rounded children who enjoy learning.

When DS2 was in Y5 he was asked many times by his teacher to introduce topics they were going to do in science. I asked him how she asked him and he said that the teacher knew that he liked reading about many things (e.g. 1000 facts books) so I guess she wanted to boost his confidence. Then I asked him about a very clever boy in his class who later got accepted by a top super-selective grammar where currently the A-Levels average is A*- and if he is so clever why doesn't the teacher ask him? DS's answer was that all that boy does is 11+, he has no knowledge about the world (exact DS's words) and even during break times he would attempt 11+ questions

I know for sure that they had Newsround and age-appropriate news sources at school and various fiction and non-fiction books. However when parents prioritise and monopolise homework and 11+ it won't just affect your 11+ but also later university admissions if all you do is run away to solve even more problems. That was a NT child.

Haha. By the way, my DC aren't gifted - but I have known and worked with gifted kids - but I'm fine with that. I'm not sure all parents on here can accept that their DC are not 'gifted'.

Ahahah I am a journalist and news-obsessed and, as a consequence, my kids refuse to watch the news just to piss me off...

I just thought, as a final comment, I wonder if the OP asked questions about current affairs and, when the children they interviewed seemed clueless, asked if they watch the news, and they answered in the negative.

The points I've been making around gifted children v very able was not to suggest that middle-class, super driven parents should start shoving newspapers down their DC's mouths but rather that truly gifted children will actively SEEK OUT information about what's going on in the world. Unless you put a padlock on their laptops etc, they will look for it, they really will. There is nothing that will stop their curiosity about the world, and it does sometimes mean they get to see/hear things at times that perhaps some parents might think of as not age-appropriate. They will survive!

Of course, all of this doesn't mean that an able/highly able (but not quite gifted) child can't do very well academically (so, tiger mums/dads, please don't start force-feeding news programmes/papers to your DC). If these kids work hard, they will do very well, probably better than a gifted child who does not apply themselves.

Incidentally, gifted children aren't always the 'perfect, obedient pupil' in that they will challenge authority, ask 'difficult' questions and they often have a wicked sense of humour (early sarcasm). Google giftedness and you will see and, I suspect, this is what interviews at those super-duper selective schools are trying to tease out.

I pointed out corruption in the West in response to your post. And you say why would a child need to know any of that??? Or be able to at 10?? I certainly did at 10. It’s extremely healthy for a 10-year-old to know corruption in government, failures in government and to hold them account for this. If we have an informed, critical minded populace, they cannot be led by the nose on populist issues. Yes, I'm looking at you Trump, who behaves like a halfwit.

Why is it 'extremely healthy' for a ten year old to know corruption in government, etc?

You state this is as if it's self evident. Your strongest argument in favour of it is that your parents saw fit to produce such a ten year old. You think everyone else should make the choices your parents did. There isn't much critical thinking there.

Do you want an informed, critical minded population of ten year olds who can't be led by the nose? A cohort of ten year olds who will hold failed governments to account?

Or do you want people of voting age to be critical thinkers, willing and able to exercise their democratic rights?

Because one scenario is desirable and achievable and the other is - well there are no words springing to mind right now to cover the utter preposterousness of it.

This...News programmes are not educational they are sensational.

You don't sound terribly clued in with contemporary pedagogies and neuroscience, that's a bit of a shame for someone I an influential role at a selective and regarded private school.

I'm afriad you've lost me @mathanxiety I haven't a clue what your post is trying to say, although you've tagged me and my post in here.

I pointed out corruption in the West in response to your post. And you say why would a child need to know any of that??? Or be able to at 10?? I certainly did at 10. It’s extremely healthy for a 10-year-old to know corruption in government, failures in government and to hold them account for this. If we have an informed, critical minded populace, they cannot be led by the nose on populist issues. Yes, I'm looking at you Trump, who behaves like a halfwit.

Familiarity with certain terminology and the ability to follow an article on profits of gas companies doesn't prove intelligence above that of the general population either

I haven't a clue what your talking about here, especially in reference to anyting I've written. Perhaps my suggestion of the FT and Economist as a source for balanced news? What has intellectual curiosity got to do with 'familiarity with certain terminology' ??

I'd be well impressed if a 10 year old could discuss at length fluctuations in the gas price market and the reasoning behind record profits of gas companies. It would take hardly 5 minutes to know if the kid had learnt certain terminology but had no real grasp or understanding of the subject.

If it became apparent they did have an understanding of the subject, I'd be happy to take that as proof of a level of intelligence beyond the average 10 year old, easily, I'm surprised you seem to think a 10 year that can follow an article on profits of a gas companies in the FT is no big deal

it's a sign of parents who are either aspirational, narrow minded, focused on status, unimaginative, or all of the above.

That could describe many hard working immigrant parents who want a better life for their children, it could describe our Prime Minister's parents who sent him to a famous public school even after he failed to get a scholarship, because they were determined to elevate him beyond the African immigrants they were.

You've tied in the class system to this, do you mean schools like Eton/Harrow perpetuate the class system? If so, I 100% agree, no argument from me there.

But as I said, I don't really understand your post.

Where you quoted me in the last part of your post, I was demonstrating how in criticising parents who ban their children from watching news, I would be dismissed as being a woke, virtue signalling, intellectual, I personally think the whole concept of 'woke' and 'virtue signalling' is bollocks, made up by fools in a desperate attempt to discredit anyone they disagree with.

Yeah I think that’s poor. It’s basic parenting to make sure your children have a basic understanding of current affairs, whether by telling them to read newsround each day, or simply by chatting to them. I try and tell them each day during dinner at least one news item, if it hasnt come up in discussion yet.
Big stuff though.. the earthquake, for example, or an election, or Ukraine I’d be surprised if an 11 yo had no knowledge! I mean the news is a main topic of conversation in many houses.

I have a clear recollection from watching the documentary series 7Up, 14Up, etc. In particular, in the 7Up episode, three little prep school boys were boasting about reading the FT and such. They weren't so gung ho about that in later interviews. In fact, they seemed pretty disgusted or at least highly conflicted about their younger selves and the very strange cultural environment they had inhabited in their early youth.

@DaddyPhD

A revolving door at no10, batshit crazy economic policies that blew a £30 billions wide hole in our economy, huge corruption during Covid, record breaking profits of gas companies while people have died of cold because they can't afford to switch on heating, and that's just in the UK! A halfwit in America nearly sparking a civil war , but dysfunction politics is a thing that happens outside the West???

And why would a child need to digest any of that? Even on a cognitive level that would be difficult for a child of 10.

Familiarity with certain terminology and the ability to follow an article on profits of gas companies doesn't prove intelligence above that of the general population either. It does, however, indicate hot-housing. It shows parents pushing a child toward PPE and Number Ten, or at least the vicinity thereof. In other words, it's a sign of parents who are either aspirational, narrow minded, focused on status, unimaginative, or all of the above. Possibly also willing to use their children as a means of establishing or cementing themselves in a certain tribe.

Is dogged pushing of children up the same old greasy pole their forefathers climbed what the UK needs? That this sort of focus is expected of prospects interviewing for Eton (or whatever other public schools do it) should be ringing alarm bells; it's certainly not a cause for self congratulation and anthems of praise for saving a small group of boys and girls from the encroaching Woke. The UK will remain a Them and Us society as long as this sort of nonsense passes for assessment of intellectual potential in its leading educational establishments. It's only evidence of living well inside the box deemed special by a certain part of society.

And 'halfwit'?

But I suspect my opinion would be dismissed as part of the anti-common sense, virtue signalling, North London intellectual woke agenda, by these same people who ban the news for their children.

It seems exposure to news and debate at home hasn't managed to prevent a very unfortunate closed-mindedness and parochial focus.

What are you doing here if not virtue signalling? Identifying with a certain tribe? Proposing a pro Establishment agenda?

Personally considering the amount of spin, misinformation, ect it's mix,

This thread has reminded me of a book I found really useful with the current affairs content of my subject: Hans Rosling's "Factfulness". It would definitely be worth showing a 10 or 11 year old a page from that and seeing what they made of it.

If OP recruits for an Eton/ Harrow type school, they must get loads of boys 10 going on 40 at interview, that's probably why kids who aren't allowed to watch the news are so weird to the schoolmaster.

Reminds me of that French doc on the 12 year old Jacob Rees Mogg, bet he read the FT at 10, was probably writing letters to the editor complaining of their coverage on his portfolio stocks at 10.

The Week is also a good publication .. I got it for the teens but read it myself too . It provides comment from a variety of different sources and a more balanced and less sensational approach to that found on TV