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Original poster

Online application for secondary school failed to submit

157 replies

NH78 · 08/01/2023 20:42

Hello

I am unbelievably stressed and any advice would be greatly received.

We completed and submitted our application form for DS secondary school on 28 October - three days before the deadline.

On 14 December I accidentally logged into the e-admissions website instead of DS school to check his dinner money account. Once logged in, to my absolute horror, I saw “application not submitted”. I could not believe it!

I immediately re-submitted the application and emailed the LA e-admission team and explained what had happened - their response was simply that the application is late and will not be looked at until after 1 March (National Offer Day) when all on time applications are processed.

I emailed the Headteacher at DS school, who emailed the head of admission’s and asked that under the circumstances our application could be considered as “late with good reason” but this was refused.

There are three decent schools near us and one bad one, which always has spaces left. As our application will not be looked at until after 1 March, it is inevitable he will be offered a place at the bad school.

I am distraught. I haven’t spoken to DS about this - he is going to be crushed!

We will obviously appeal but not sure on what grounds.

Has anyone been in this situation before?

Any advice would be appreciated!

Many thanks,

NH78

OP posts:
Original poster
NH78 · 10/01/2023 10:42

The irony is that DH worked at the school for 10 years as the IT Network Manager.

He went to then school today and had an informal meeting with the school’s admission officer. She seems to think we have strong grounds for appeal.

She also said all year 7 applicants that were on the waiting list in September are all now in the school. Obviously she can’t predict numbers for this year but it sounds promising to me.

She also said the LA emissions team are useless!

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 10/01/2023 09:27

NH78 · 10/01/2023 08:51

Last year’s cut off distance was 1.4 miles

That suggests you will be at or very near the head of the waiting list, so you have a good chance of getting a place that way. It also helps if the appeal panel accept that the LA's admissions system failed as, unless the cut off distance goes down enormously this year, it shows that you would have got a place if you had been treated as an on time applicant.

snowtrees · 10/01/2023 08:57

Fingers crossed that a few have moved / go private and you get a wait list offer.

Original poster
NH78 · 10/01/2023 08:51

Last year’s cut off distance was 1.4 miles

OP posts:
snowtrees · 10/01/2023 08:48

One of our local high schools has a radius of 0.9 normally so that wouldn't be that high up list. Others have 3 mile radius so odds would be higher. In rural areas it could be 5-10 miles

snowtrees · 10/01/2023 08:46

Nearest is not really relevant. What is last distance normally offered?

Original poster
NH78 · 10/01/2023 08:40

We are 0.7 miles from the school and it is our nearest.

OP posts:
snowtrees · 10/01/2023 07:54

How close to the school are you

redskydelight · 10/01/2023 07:43

Gigglechop · 09/01/2023 21:19

Sure but literally the only thing the OP says about the school her son will likely get is that it is “bad”.

And that is not going to cut it

Show quote history

I think it's reasonable to assume that OP will not appeal on the basis of another school being "bad". And that she will actually come up with some reasons that might have some weight. She preferred the school in the first place - she must have some reason for thinking it was "good".

prh47bridge · 10/01/2023 00:30

NH78 · 09/01/2023 23:43

I have an email from e-admissions on 15 September - “Thank you for registering to use the eAdmissions website”.

I also have a text message from them dated 12 October - “You have successfully signed up to receive eAdmissions text messages”.

I did not receive a reminder email or text message on 28 October, even though my application had in fact already been started.

Wonder if the above would help an appeal in any way?

Yes, it would. It doesn't prove you had actually entered any of your application, but it shows you were aware of the need to apply and had started the process. I would say that certainly raises questions as to why you didn't receive a reminder. They may have a good explanation for it, but I would argue that, on their current explanation (everyone who had started their application received a reminder), this shows that you should have received one.

Original poster
NH78 · 09/01/2023 23:43

I have an email from e-admissions on 15 September - “Thank you for registering to use the eAdmissions website”.

I also have a text message from them dated 12 October - “You have successfully signed up to receive eAdmissions text messages”.

I did not receive a reminder email or text message on 28 October, even though my application had in fact already been started.

Wonder if the above would help an appeal in any way?

OP posts:
PatriciaHolm · 09/01/2023 21:54

What Gigglechop has posted is the grounds under which an infant class size appeal can be won - those, and only those, for ICS.

But this isn't ICS. So they are irrelevant.

At secondary, a panel would of course still look to be sure that the admissions arrangements had been complied with, and no mistake had been made that cost the child a place. Which is where the doubt around what has actually happened here, and what the Council can see from their systems, is relevant for discussion.

But overall, grounds can be much more general - from the Appeals Code;

"3.8 The panel must balance the prejudice to the school against the appellant’s case for the child to be admitted to the school. It must take into account the appellant’s reasons for expressing a preference for the school, including what that school can offer the child that the allocated or other schools cannot. If the panel considers that the appellant’s case outweighs the prejudice to the school, it must uphold the appeal."

At present, OP hasn't formulated those arguments because this has only just happened. I suspect in time, and with help, she can find reasons that the preferred school suits her sons needs. The issue will be whether a panel thinks those reasons outweigh the prejudice to the school in taking another pupil.

Lougle · 09/01/2023 21:49

Gigglechop · 09/01/2023 21:20

How far back does all your browsing history go?!!

Google keeps history for 90 days. If the OP used Chrome and hasn't cleared her history manually, 28/10/22 is only 74 days ago, so she may find it.

LockInAtTheFeathers · 09/01/2023 21:26

@Gigglechop prh47bridge is extremely knowledgeable about school admissions and appeals, and has helped many MNetters to win their appeals. You appeal for the school you want, not against the one you have anyway.

Gigglechop · 09/01/2023 21:20

How far back does all your browsing history go?!!

Gigglechop · 09/01/2023 21:19

prh47bridge · 09/01/2023 17:21

I didn't say that. However, the disadvantage to the pupil from not being admitted outweighing problems the school will face is enshrined in the Admission Appeals Code as one of the ways an appeal can be won. Most appeals for secondary schools are won on this basis.

Show quote history

Sure but literally the only thing the OP says about the school her son will likely get is that it is “bad”.

And that is not going to cut it

thirdtimeluckyorwhat · 09/01/2023 19:04

I agree with going back over your history to get proof that you did the form and was a genuine mistake. A friend of mine did the same thing as you. She forgot to check for a email confirmation and it was never submitted. Her daughter ended up having to take a place at the school which is not desirable and a way out of the area as all the other places are given out first.

prh47bridge · 09/01/2023 17:28

Soontobe60 · 09/01/2023 16:57

They said they checked the online system and it shows the OP was on the system that day, but it doesn’t say that they could see she did in fact submit the application. They’re not admitting liability. There’s no dispute the OP was online on that day. The dispute is whether the OP submitted or not. Perhaps this would show in the OPs browser history?
The OP would also have to be able to prove that they did start their application before the reminders were sent out - again her browser history would show this. Just saying - “I started the application in September, and I pressed the submit button on time” wouldn’t do anything unless there was actual proof.

Show quote history

If there is proof in the browser history that will help, but remember that appeals are not a court of law. The appeal panel doesn't require proof beyond a reasonable doubt. The LA has confirmed that the OP accessed the system on the date she said she submitted the application. That confirms she isn't making the whole thing up. It doesn't confirm she tried to submit the application, but it does suggest that she at least thought she had.

And I hope that, after the Horizon debacle, appeal panels should be aware that bare assertions from the LA that their systems are fine should not be relied upon. If there are other parents in the LA that have had the same experience as OP and they appeal, the panel should be alive to the possibility that there might be something wrong with the LA's computer system.

prh47bridge · 09/01/2023 17:21

Gigglechop · 09/01/2023 16:02

I am afraid the fact that the alternative schools are a bit shit…. Won’t be grounds

Show quote history

I didn't say that. However, the disadvantage to the pupil from not being admitted outweighing problems the school will face is enshrined in the Admission Appeals Code as one of the ways an appeal can be won. Most appeals for secondary schools are won on this basis.

prh47bridge · 09/01/2023 17:20

Gigglechop · 09/01/2023 16:01

Kent

the admission arrangements were unlawful.
the admission arrangements weren't correctly and impartially applied.
the decision to refuse admission wasn't reasonable.

so yes, you can submit an appeal on any grounds you fancy under the last one.

but human error in an heavily oversubscribed school won’t be regarded as “reasonable” will it?!

Kent can say what they like. That is not an exhaustive list of grounds on which appeals can be won. Their appeal panels will ignore this and follow the Admission Appeals Code.

Bramshott · 09/01/2023 17:07

Can you check your browser history OP for the dates in question and hope it says something helpful like "Submit Application" or "Success" rather than just a generic "X Council Schools Portal"? At the very least if you can show that you started your application on 15 Sept and save that history down now, that might help you later if you have to appeal.

FoxCorner · 09/01/2023 17:06

I remember booking a vaccination online and being convinced I'd booked it but it hadn't gone through when I got there. I'd screenshotted the booking details and they let me have it anyway, but I can see how thus would happen.

FoxCorner · 09/01/2023 16:58

Sorry to hear that happened. Best of luck with him getting in 🤞

Soontobe60 · 09/01/2023 16:57

prh47bridge · 09/01/2023 15:37

If you have information that they've checked your online activity and their incorrect explanation for the lack of any reminder, you have evidence to take to appeal. I'm not saying it would work. That may depend on the appeal panel you get. But you certainly do have a leg to stand on in showing that there is a problem with their system.

The crucial question may be what happened when you pressed submit. Did it stay on the same screen with no changes, did a message pop up saying your application had been submitted or did it take you to a new page?

Show quote history

They said they checked the online system and it shows the OP was on the system that day, but it doesn’t say that they could see she did in fact submit the application. They’re not admitting liability. There’s no dispute the OP was online on that day. The dispute is whether the OP submitted or not. Perhaps this would show in the OPs browser history?
The OP would also have to be able to prove that they did start their application before the reminders were sent out - again her browser history would show this. Just saying - “I started the application in September, and I pressed the submit button on time” wouldn’t do anything unless there was actual proof.

Lougle · 09/01/2023 16:55

I think some people are getting a bit confused between the application process and the appeals process.

@NH78 clearly can't appeal on the grounds that she submitted her application successfully and the council didn't receive it, because she has no proof that it is the case. She can, however, appeal that she tried to submit her application, that it didn't submit properly and that she didn't know. The council have confirmed that she has logged in at key dates.

Secondly, she can appeal on any grounds she likes. I sat through an appeal once which entirely focused on the Government's 'green travel' principles and how we should accept the appeal so that the child could go to a closer school. The appeal failed, but we listened to every word.

Thirdly, a single ground of appeal may not succeed on it's own, but in conjunction with other grounds, it can tip the balance of prejudice.

@NH78 you need to look at all the schools your DS is likely to be allocated. Compare them with the school you'd prefer. Note every single strength of your preferred school and why it would be better for your DS.

Do not write negative things about the school you are likely to be allocated. You're appealing for your preferred school, not against your allocated school.