Child working at "expected" ; anyone's DC working at expected pass the 11plus?

Ask around if there is an 11+ tutor who will do a pre-assessment, they should tell you whether they think your child is capable of passing etc and take it from there.

@TheRubyRedshoes because fsm kids are disadvantaged with their home lives which massively impact attainment. Sen kids can have extra time and support to even out the playing field. Nothing is perfect but this isn't something to be mad about.

I’m not sure if it is just your wording I’m not understanding, but children’s scores are definitely ‘changed’ based on age. Everyone gets a raw score (literally how many they got right), this is then run through an algorithm based on their age in years and months to give a standardised score. A child who scores, say 35/50 and is born in September will get a different standardised score to a child who scores 35/50 and is born in august. September born children have to score more marks to get the same standardised score as august children. Explained here:

support.gl-assessment.co.uk/knowledge-base/guides/a-guide-to-standardised-tests/a-guide-to-standardised-tests/how-are-standardised-test-results-described/

Also bear in mind @TheRubyRedshoes that the 11+ exam is not curriculum-based so while the 'working at' levels are a useful general guide they do not translate directly into 11+ scores. You might find that your DD2 aces the 11+ because the style of exam suits her (or the opposite I suppose). I wouldn't let her 'working at' levels put you off in the slightest, particularly when you say she has improved considerably just recently.

Just one point to correct you on, though. Scores don't 'change' in the way you seem to think depending on birthdate. What the system does is compare all members of the cohort taking the exam by birth month ie if your daughter was born in, say, October her score will be compared to others born in October. Those born in May will be compared to others born in May. Parents with DCs born early in the academic year often complain that the system is weighted against them, but it is not, this is a misunderstanding of how it really works.

My DS had a number of health issues and was very far behind. My older DC was already having tuition for 11plus prep. He happened to be an educational assessor too so he started supporting my DS to catch up. It was still very hit and miss as he had some issues with his writing but he did manage to get offered two schools via the entrance exams. He is now 15 and has been recently assessed and definitely has processing issues, he is being given extra time in his exams and touch typing, They want his to have a full dyslexia assessment.

I have to say one of the key things that I think was pivotal was DS badly wanted to get into grammar school despite the odds being stacked against him. Good luck OP. It’s a shit system we’re stuck with!

SATs don't matter for the students at all. They are a measure of the school. Schools drum it into patents that they are important so they buy into the build up.

Secondary schools don't work exclusively on SAT levels when setting, as a lot can change at secondary and they don't know how much a child has been drilled.

The other thing secondary schools use SATs for is progress checking and reporting. None of which is for the individual student.

Absolutely, what is the problem if she doesn't pass ?

I'm in NI where we still have the grammar system. The 11plus was abolished a few years ago, but nothing was put in its place due to massive opposition from the grammar schools and from parents, so we now have transfer tests. They are not compulsory (in fact they aren't even 'official') but huge numbers of children do them every year, including my eldest 3 years ago. Here, the children are given practice papers to do in P6/P7. What I would say is be careful about tutoring. If your child needs intensive tutoring to get a place in grammar school, it may not be for them. If it was me, I would buy some practice tests or a book with 11plus style questions and see how she copes with the actual content. Personally, I feel tutoring is for children who are doing well academically, but need guidance with exam technique and timing, or need to brush up in certain areas. A lot of parents shove their children through the transfer test using tutors (big business here) and discover they can't cope in the grammar school environment. There's a lot of chat and exchange of information on social media and just generally as it's a huge thing.

This.

Do some extra work if you like and your child is ok with that, and see what happens. But don't push and push at the risk of stripping her of confidence and scraping her into a school where she is out of her depth.

Name changed as possibly outing. My child was expecting right through and even below at some points. He also had other issues. He got up to exceeding in maths at y5. He passed and is an August baby. Group tuition, mock tests, one to one a couple of times a week with parents, times tables and spelling practice on the school run. He was friends with all the ‘grammar kids’ in his class. Older brother passed so the expectation was there. He’s now flying in y6 as the age gap is closing between him and his peers and developmentally he’s caught up.

I would chose the better school and have dc do the best they can there. I personally think it's a good experience not to be best or top but to keep working away and be surrounded by bright students who want to learn. I went to a grammar school and was middle of the road there in many subjects but I did well in my A levels. Decades later I realise I am better educated than many around me and that's due to my schooling. For me, it made me more aspirational.

I had a tutor to pass the 11+ many (many) years ago. I had a high reading age and was top set maths but I needed help practising the non-verbal reasoning on the exam. I found primary school very easy.

I would say that I went from being top of the class at primary to being bottom third of a grammar school. It was hard and I struggled. I had an excellent secondary education which I'm very grateful for but it hugely knocked my confidence. Of course, saying what school I went to does have a bit of a boast to it, but my A-level grades in particular would have been significantly better had I gone elsewhere; with less pressure, slower pace and giving me more confidence.

My daughter was expected in primary, slightly above in Maths but had a lower reading age. We didn't put her for selective entry and she's doing really well at a good non-selective. She enjoys being near the top of the class and getting good marks in tests, those things boost her confidence. At the end of the day, it's not what school she goes to, but that she's confident and happy.

My daughter did the 11plus a few years ago. She was exceeding in English, working at for Maths. I did not tutor her at all and was prepared for her to not get any offers. She had a practice book I got from WHSmiths and that was it. While I never got her results she was offered places by 3 schools. Interestingly she recently did the MIDYIS (which I'm told is an aptitude test), results of which placed her in the to 10% of all students.

Moral of the tale being don't take any one 'assessment' as absolute. It's always worth giving it a try!

V similar situation with dd2 who is also year. 5. We are already tutoring. Dd1 was exceeding in everything and scored very high at 11+ and got her first choice. She fits right in at grammar. Dd2 has been steadfast expected but her teacher was clear that since she met all her milestones there was no reason not to put her in for 11+.
Tutor is saying she is slower in learning that dd1 but doing ok. I can't predict the outcome but if she doesn't do so well in the mock we will probably not do the exam and look at other options.

In the grammar area I know best all the children with a hope of passing are drilled from year 4 or 5. It’s really not a case of cram hard enough and you’ll do it because everyone is doing the same.

You have to be relentless in the practice and bright and lucky.

Shit system.

I know other areas are different though.

My child was exceeding and didn’t pass. That was with tutoring. It depends on the year and the cohort I guess. I wouldn’t assume ‘expected’ in all areas would pass. Unless she makes massive improvements- and would grammar school be right for her? Many thrive under the pressure and competition but lots don’t. You can go from being in the top set in primary maths to the bottom set in grammar- and everything that does to confidence…

I definitely think there is more focus on the verbal and reading side. The few that passed in DS’s year were big readers. The vocab side is hugely important.

But they do also need to be able to do Yr6 maths in Yr5.