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Original poster

SPAG marks for GCSE

30 replies

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 01/01/2023 19:08

Looking for some advice on how many marks are at stake here.

Y9 DD is clever but has pretty severe dyslexia and has hypermobile finger joints that makes writing by hand extremely slow and painful. Her major issues are working memory and spelling, her reading is okay but she wouldn't ever find it 'fun'. Her target grades for GCSE are 8/9 across the board.

She's used a laptop with editing software since Y6.

The SENCO has been in touch to check that DD wants a laptop for all exams, and has asked me if she wants spell check enabled or not - with the proviso that if it's enabled she can't get the SPAG marks. Unfortunately SENCO did not provide any info on what that means...

Without spell check I suspect the examiner would need to be something of a cryptanalyst as everything is written phonetically and the same word is often spelt four different ways in a single paragraph (no intervention has made the slightest difference to DD's spelling so we gave up and just let software solve the problem).

If we opt to keep the spell check enabled, would that rule out any chance of getting top grades? Are there SPAG marks in all subjects and do they carry the same weight?

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Skiptothelooo · 02/01/2023 15:50

Is your DD getting any spelling help at school? There are programs that can be offered such as thatspellingthing.com. When my DS was in mainstream he also had a block (should really have been weekly but wasn’t) of 1-1 regular spelling sessions.

JaffavsCookie · 02/01/2023 15:41

We also allow any dispensations in class for all tests from y7 upwards. You have to otherwise it doesn’t count as normal way of working. Like another poster normal assessments are 40 mins, so the extra timers 10 mins still fits into a 50/55 min lesson.
as an aside OP I examine GCSE science and no need to worry about SPAG at all ( for my exam board anyway) in science other than a very very few words which must be spelt correctly eg mitosis/meiosis.

Original poster
OhCrumbsWhereNow · 02/01/2023 14:14

I think the SENCO team is either new or has been newly revamped as we've suddenly had a lot more contact - Covid provision at school was great in terms of online streaming etc, but being a huge school and in London, Y7 was a nightmare in terms of endless isolations and lockdowns. So things that I'd have looked into sorting early on rather got overlooked as everything was a bit of a mess for everyone for those years - and I felt school had enough to deal with trying to sort the exam year groups and just educate everyone!

Y9 feels like a good time to get things in place though, especially now everything is back to normal, so it's really useful to know what other schools are doing and to try and make sure DD has a level playing field going forward.

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MmeSzyszkoBohusz · 02/01/2023 13:12

At our school (exams officer here) we try to encourage the teachers to set in-class tests that fit within the lesson with extra time, so for us that’s 40 min standard, 50 min with 25% extra time. Extra timers start first and everyone finishes together. Access arrangements are in place for all tests as normal way of working. It’s not always easy - but we try our best!
PS great to see a SENCO checking in year 9, ours always leaves it so late!

MrsHamlet · 02/01/2023 13:00

Every assessment/end of topic test/exam, yes. From y7-13.

Not literally outside, no. In the learning support base or the library or a computer room, based on need.

Original poster
OhCrumbsWhereNow · 02/01/2023 11:43

So for say the 'end of topic' test in Y9, those with EAA get that extra time? Or just the end of year exams?

When you say outside the classroom, do you mean literally outside, or in another room? Sorry, just want to get things clear in my mind.

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MrsHamlet · 02/01/2023 11:38

OhCrumbsWhereNow · 02/01/2023 11:29

So do you do that for every class test?

How do you factor that in if you have children due in other classes and the room is required for a new class?

Show quote history

We do. It's expected.

Students with EAA sit assessments outside the classroom and everyone knows how this works, so no one worries about it.

Original poster
OhCrumbsWhereNow · 02/01/2023 11:29

MrsHamlet · 02/01/2023 00:39

I teach in a normal state school and we give EAA in every formal assessment from y7!

It's hugely complex for us to manage, but we do. It's our job.

So do you do that for every class test?

How do you factor that in if you have children due in other classes and the room is required for a new class?

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Original poster
OhCrumbsWhereNow · 02/01/2023 11:28

@TeenDivided

It's 4 lessons back to back, then lunch, 3 lessons back to back. So there is not much leeway.

They offer extra time in the formal exams - although only ever had those once due to Covid, didn't happen in Y6 (SATS) or Y7 - but nothing else.

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TeenDivided · 02/01/2023 07:29

OP. How s the timetable organised at your school?
At DDs it was 2, break, 2, lunch, 1, home.
That meant that if she knew there was going to be a whole lesson test DD could organise to present early or stay late so as to have access to the extra time.

MrsHamlet · 02/01/2023 00:39

I teach in a normal state school and we give EAA in every formal assessment from y7!

It's hugely complex for us to manage, but we do. It's our job.

Original poster
OhCrumbsWhereNow · 01/01/2023 23:23

MrsHamlet · 01/01/2023 23:13

In AQA English language, spag is only assessed on the two Q5. We don't even think about it in the other questions.

She shouldn't unbalance the timings too much though. SPAG is actually worth relatively little in the grand scheme of things, and ambitious vocabulary counts (for AQA at least) in AO5 and 6 so it's better to attempt it and get it wrong than not to.

Thank you, this is so helpful!

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Original poster
OhCrumbsWhereNow · 01/01/2023 23:23

MrsHamlet · 01/01/2023 23:15

Also, she should get all EAA as a matter of course in class tests, otherwise it's not normal way of working.

I completely agree, but this doesn't ever seem to happen - and talking to friends whose children in other state schools also have the 25%, none of them seem to get it for anything other than formal 'exam season'.

It's annoying as it means they never learn to effectively use that extra time and so just don't bother.

I raised it at primary when DD never managed to go up a level for times tables as she never managed to complete the test every week (you had to get full marks to move up), and was told it was too disruptive to the class to have some children finishing later!

Covid rather put paid to being able to go in and sort things at the beginning of secondary so I'm playing catch up now.

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MrsHamlet · 01/01/2023 23:15

Also, she should get all EAA as a matter of course in class tests, otherwise it's not normal way of working.

MrsHamlet · 01/01/2023 23:13

In AQA English language, spag is only assessed on the two Q5. We don't even think about it in the other questions.

She shouldn't unbalance the timings too much though. SPAG is actually worth relatively little in the grand scheme of things, and ambitious vocabulary counts (for AQA at least) in AO5 and 6 so it's better to attempt it and get it wrong than not to.

Original poster
OhCrumbsWhereNow · 01/01/2023 22:50

Making a big list of things now.

She uses a laptop with everything enabled and read-back function as normal way of working, and has had 25% extra time (although whether she'll still get that under new criteria I don't know... normally doesn't use it as they never get given it in class tests etc but it would be handy if she needs to use read-back or quadruple check the SPaG).

So will find out if the SENCO reckons she get's read-back allowed.

I will get in touch with the English teacher as well. I suspect he has no idea that she's got the problems she has, as she never, ever writes anything except using tech. She's top set and 'on target' so they will definitely be hoping for top grades at GCSE.

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Michaelmonstera · 01/01/2023 22:31

She would only be allowed to use the read back feature if she is entitled to a reader/computer reader. I would also make an appointment with her English teacher to work out a strategy to maximise her chances of higher level grades or consider a tutor.

Original poster
OhCrumbsWhereNow · 01/01/2023 22:26

MrsHamlet · 01/01/2023 22:15

I examine GCSE English. SPAG is 4 marks on each lit paper and 16 on each Lang.

I recommend that she either use the spell checker or the grammar checker but not both, because that gives access to more of the available marks in each band.

We are very used to dealing with challenging spelling.

As for being allowed to read back, that will depend on her access arrangement. It's worth speaking to the exams officer about that.

Just out of interest, when you are marking a paper where the student is told that SPaG will be examined in Question 3, does that mean that you completely ignore all SPaG errors in every other answer?

So a child could spend 3 times as long on one question to ensure they get the SPaG marks and then revert to normal on the rest?

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Original poster
OhCrumbsWhereNow · 01/01/2023 22:23

Okay that doesn't sound quite so dire!

Grammar and punctuation aren't stellar but could be pulled up to a decent standard. It's the spelling that is off the scale terrible.

And good to know that examiners are used to dealing with challenging and creative examples of that!

If I look up AO6 is there a guide to how everything is assessed and marks allocated? Suspect I will need to go in and see the SENCO and I'd rather do the prep work ahead of time so as not to waste the appointment.

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Michaelmonstera · 01/01/2023 22:20

Also make sure she doesn’t dumb down the vocabulary she uses to try and get the spelling marks.

Michaelmonstera · 01/01/2023 22:16

Yikes 20%... that pretty much puts paid to any chance of a top grade.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow - with no autocorrect she would still get marks for punctuation and grammar. For A06, there are six strands to the 16 marks for technical accuracy:

demarcation of sentences
use of punctuation
range of sentence forms
use of Standard English
spelling
vocabulary

If she knows she is going to lose the spelling marks, she needs to focus on perfecting the other elements.

MrsHamlet · 01/01/2023 22:15

I examine GCSE English. SPAG is 4 marks on each lit paper and 16 on each Lang.

I recommend that she either use the spell checker or the grammar checker but not both, because that gives access to more of the available marks in each band.

We are very used to dealing with challenging spelling.

As for being allowed to read back, that will depend on her access arrangement. It's worth speaking to the exams officer about that.

Original poster
OhCrumbsWhereNow · 01/01/2023 22:10

That's good to know!

Looking at some of the exams board things, it seems like only one question is used to assess SPAG for things like RE, Geog etc. Does that mean you could turn off the spell check for that question but have it on for the others?

I feel for both DD and for the poor sod who has to read anything she's written without spell check (she's a very fast touch typer so it's likely to be pages and pages).

Would she be allowed to use a read back function to check work in an exam? She gets an extra 25% time allowance. She'd never recognise something was spelt wrong by looking at it, but if it read back wrong then she'd realise and be able to have an attempt at fixing it.

Weirdly, despite the dyslexia and spelling/reading issues, she has a vast vocabulary and is considered to be unusually talented at creative writing by her English teachers (ashamed to admit I made them double check the name of the child as I was so shocked). It would be a shame if she doesn't get the grades that would allow her to do some subjects at higher level. Sigh...

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dandlmum · 01/01/2023 21:54

Also- hold the faith- whatever happens at gcse, at A level spag doesn’t seem to be a thing! And definitely at uni those who need to can get permission to use laptop wjth spellcheck for exams!

dandlmum · 01/01/2023 21:49

My dd did gcse last year. Similar issue but in their case they use a scribe . Under that circumstance, they were eligible to receive punctuation and grammar marks (if they dictated punctuation) but not spelling marks , so 2/3 of the spag. For English lang, as others have said, spag is a much bigger percentage so they typed the part where spag is assessed (spell check turned off). They type slowly so couldn’t write as much, but decided that was the best way to do it. Used scribe for everything else. They still managed 8s or 9s for all subjects which assessed spag. So def possible . Be strategic about how many spag marks are available in a particular subject and therefore the best way to maximise chances, whilst also showing what they know / can do