Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

AI chatbot doing kids' homework for them - undetectable

237 replies

noblegiraffe · 31/12/2022 01:27

The robot apocalypse is upon us - an AI can now produce essays that cannot be picked up by plagiarism software. The Telegraph is breathlessly reporting that teachers are begging the government to solve the problem.

I've been playing around with the AI, and it is, indeed, impressive. It can produce perfectly reasonable essays in response to exam questions, in whatever style that you request; and not just essays, it can answer maths and science questions (and indeed any subject) with step by step explanations

Should teachers be worried? Probably. My DS reports that he has already heard of kids using it to do their homework.

How can we combat this?

Well, for English and humanities teachers, I would advise that you make an account and chat with the AI yourself. Feed it questions, see what it comes up with. It does come up with different answers each time you ask, but with strong similarities. If you feed your essay question in enough times, in enough ways, you should be able to spot AI generated answers.

The other solution is to only bother marking work that the students have produced in class, in test conditions - this is a policy I've had as a maths teacher for years. As a correct answer is a correct answer, who knows if it was produced by the pupil, their tutor, their parents, or the kid they hang out with at break time?

Parents: Try to encourage your kids not to cheat as in the end the AI can't sit their exams for them.

The software won't be free forever. But who knows what is coming next?

chat.openai.com/chat

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 31/12/2022 15:16

Piggy I asked: Write an extract from a science fiction style screenplay in which you introduce a main character

INT. SPACECRAFT - DAY

We see a close-up of a pair of piercing blue eyes. They belong to JASMINE (30), a fierce and talented astronaut who has dedicated her life to exploring the galaxy.

As the camera pans out, we see that Jasmine is strapped into her seat on the spacecraft, staring intently at the controls in front of her. She is focused and determined, with a no-nonsense attitude that commands respect.

Suddenly, the alarm blares, jolting Jasmine out of her concentration. She quickly checks the readings on her console and realizes that something is wrong.

JASMINE
(to herself)
Come on, Jasmine, think. What's the problem here?

She scans the data frantically, trying to find the source of the issue. After a moment, she finds it - a malfunctioning component that could jeopardize the entire mission.

JASMINE
(to the rest of the crew)
Guys, we've got a problem. The phase inverter is offline. I need to go EVA and fix it.

The rest of the crew nods in agreement, knowing that Jasmine is the only one who can handle a task like this. She unbuckles her seatbelt and stands up, ready to face whatever challenges lay ahead.

As Jasmine prepares to head out into the vast expanse of space, we see the determination and bravery that make her the perfect candidate for this high-stakes mission.

FADE TO BLACK.

OP posts:
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 31/12/2022 15:14

So that is vague on which different groups of Christians hold each belief, but I bet you could interrogate it further to get those answers.

OP posts:
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 31/12/2022 15:13

TeenDivided · 31/12/2022 15:06

Even I know those uses of quotes was poor. The first was far too long, and the second didn't support the point!

I wonder if it can do RE, eg 'Explain differing Christian beliefs on abortion'?

There are a wide range of Christian beliefs on the topic of abortion, and it is not uncommon for Christians to hold differing views on this issue. Some Christians believe that abortion is always wrong, while others believe that it may be acceptable in certain circumstances.

One view that is held by some Christians is that abortion is always wrong because it involves taking a human life, which is considered sacred by many religious traditions. This view is often based on the belief that life begins at conception, and that abortion is therefore equivalent to murder. These Christians may argue that abortion is never justifiable, no matter what the circumstances may be.

Another view that is held by some Christians is that abortion may be acceptable in certain circumstances, such as when the pregnancy is the result of rape or incest, or when the mother's health is at risk. These Christians may argue that the moral weight of these circumstances justifies the decision to have an abortion.

It is important to note that there is no one "correct" Christian view on abortion, and that different Christians may hold a range of beliefs on this issue. Ultimately, each person's beliefs on this topic are shaped by their own experiences, values, and interpretations of their faith

OP posts:
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 31/12/2022 15:12

I genuinely don't think they would. Why when it's only homework? Are we imagining a world where they care that much?

Kids have copied their maths homework from their mates since forever.

Copying homework means you don't get told off for not having done it.

OP posts:
Katapolts · 31/12/2022 15:11

Piggywaspushed · 31/12/2022 15:09

I genuinely don't think they would. Why when it's only homework? Are we imagining a world where they care that much? The ones who really care don't cheat....

This would be different in countries with regular graded assignments but seems not terribly useful in UK system.

Any subjects in the UK with NEA have so many requirements that a student couldn't circumvent them all.

Show quote history

If I didn't care much about my homework, I'd copy it rather than write it myself from scratch.

igglo · 31/12/2022 15:09

sammac82 · 31/12/2022 15:00

I think they are now saying AI can make art and compose music that rivals that of accomplished human artists and musicians. I find it quite sad but I suspect it probably is over for humantiy at least in our current form over the next couple of hundred years.

AI does not have feelings, that's what make us humans. It can create all things but it does not feel anything. Perhaps it will change in time (like in the movie with the white big fat medical assistant robot which can detect humans' feelings) but for now we can just appreciate that feelings (good and bad) are our own's treasure.

Piggywaspushed · 31/12/2022 15:09

noblegiraffe · 31/12/2022 15:04

But you're asking for a handwritten submission, so writing a handwritten essay from scratch versus copying one from a screen means that the lazy student would go for copying anyway?

Show quote history

I genuinely don't think they would. Why when it's only homework? Are we imagining a world where they care that much? The ones who really care don't cheat....

This would be different in countries with regular graded assignments but seems not terribly useful in UK system.

Any subjects in the UK with NEA have so many requirements that a student couldn't circumvent them all.

SheWoreYellow · 31/12/2022 15:09

Gosh, I signed up and got it to make a lovely bit of background on a group of cancers, their risk factors and how the success of an awareness campaign could be measured.

Katapolts · 31/12/2022 15:08

thecatfromjapan · 31/12/2022 15:03

Dd tried it on one of her university essay titles.
She said the result was good. At the very least, it gave a really good basic structure for an essay.

She, like a poster above, reported an issue with fabricated citations.

I'm guessing that will improve, though.

I could definitely see the attraction of using this to give you the basic structure and themes of an essay that you then just need to do a bit of editing and back up your arguments with quotes/citations.

Kind of like starting from a first draft rather than just a blank page! It will be very tempting to use.

Legacy · 31/12/2022 15:06

thecatfromjapan · 31/12/2022 15:03

Dd tried it on one of her university essay titles.
She said the result was good. At the very least, it gave a really good basic structure for an essay.

She, like a poster above, reported an issue with fabricated citations.

I'm guessing that will improve, though.

There's a different piece of essay-writing software, Quillbot, which gives proper academic sources and will also let you summarise/rewrite stuff to avoid plagiarising...

TeenDivided · 31/12/2022 15:06

Even I know those uses of quotes was poor. The first was far too long, and the second didn't support the point!

I wonder if it can do RE, eg 'Explain differing Christian beliefs on abortion'?

Piggywaspushed · 31/12/2022 15:06

Genuinely couldn't because it would have to meet so many details about formatting and use three genre films as influence. Word count is 1000 but see what it cones up with on:

Write an extract from a screenplay in which you introduce a main character.

They'd have to show genre so make it sci fi.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 31/12/2022 15:04

Piggywaspushed · 31/12/2022 15:03

That would take ages though and I can't see this type of student being inclined!

Show quote history

But you're asking for a handwritten submission, so writing a handwritten essay from scratch versus copying one from a screen means that the lazy student would go for copying anyway?

OP posts:
thecatfromjapan · 31/12/2022 15:03

Dd tried it on one of her university essay titles.
She said the result was good. At the very least, it gave a really good basic structure for an essay.

She, like a poster above, reported an issue with fabricated citations.

I'm guessing that will improve, though.

Piggywaspushed · 31/12/2022 15:03

noblegiraffe · 31/12/2022 15:02

The thing about saying ' get them to do it all in class is that this eats into teaching time. I vote handwritten submissions.

But they can just copy from the screen?

That would take ages though and I can't see this type of student being inclined!

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 31/12/2022 15:03

Wonder how it would cope with writing a film screenplay to a specific brief and word limit. Poorly.

Give me a brief and I'll ask it?

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 31/12/2022 15:02

No, it's still crap. I reckon it can't cope beyond factual stuff and summary.

This shows knowledge but no analysis.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 31/12/2022 15:02

The thing about saying ' get them to do it all in class is that this eats into teaching time. I vote handwritten submissions.

But they can just copy from the screen?

OP posts:
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 31/12/2022 15:01

Not sure the quotations match the claims though!

OP posts:
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 31/12/2022 15:01

Ok, Piggy, I asked it to rewrite with specific examples and quotations:

"Mercutio is a complex and multifaceted character in Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet. One of his defining characteristics is his quick wit and clever wordplay. For example, when Romeo is feeling depressed after being banished from Verona, Mercutio tries to cheer him up by making jokes about the situation, saying "Here's much to do with hate, but more with love. Why then, O brawling love, O loving hate, O anything of nothing first create! O heavy lightness, serious vanity, misshapen chaos of well-seeming forms, feather of lead, bright smoke, cold fire, sick health, still-waking sleep, that is not what it is" (Act II, Scene 4).

Another important aspect of Mercutio's character is his impulsiveness and hot-headedness. He is quick to anger and is not afraid to speak his mind, even if it means getting into arguments or fights. This is demonstrated when he gets into a heated argument with Tybalt, leading to a fatal duel.

Despite his flaws, however, Mercutio is also a loyal friend and a brave warrior. He is willing to stand up for what he believes in, and he is always there for his friends when they need him. This is exemplified when he tries to defend Romeo during the duel with Tybalt, saying "I am hurt. A plague o' both your houses! I am sped" (Act III, Scene 1).

Overall, Mercutio is a dynamic and complex character who adds depth and complexity to the story of Romeo and Juliet."

OP posts:
sammac82 · 31/12/2022 15:00

I think they are now saying AI can make art and compose music that rivals that of accomplished human artists and musicians. I find it quite sad but I suspect it probably is over for humantiy at least in our current form over the next couple of hundred years.

igglo · 31/12/2022 14:59

meant to say regarding your questions..

igglo · 31/12/2022 14:58

regarding your answer teachers might need to stop giving homework with essay style questions!
More regular short in class essays and termly long tests? To me there is no point asking for essay homework as you never know who does it.

Piggywaspushed · 31/12/2022 14:55

noblegiraffe · 31/12/2022 14:16

I asked it to analyse the character of Mercutio in Romeo and Juliet

"Mercutio is a complex and multifaceted character in Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet. He is a close friend of Romeo's and is known for his quick wit and clever wordplay.

One of the defining characteristics of Mercutio is his sense of humor. He is constantly cracking jokes and making puns, even in the face of danger or conflict. For example, when Romeo is banished from Verona and is feeling depressed, Mercutio tries to cheer him up by making jokes about the situation.

Despite his humorous exterior, however, Mercutio is also a hot-headed and impulsive character. He is quick to anger and is not afraid to speak his mind, even if it means getting into arguments or fights. This impulsiveness ultimately leads to his tragic demise, as he is killed in a duel with Tybalt.

Despite his flaws, however, Mercutio is also a loyal friend and a brave warrior. He is willing to stand up for what he believes in, and he is always there for his friends when they need him.

Overall, Mercutio is a dynamic and complex character who adds depth and complexity to the story of Romeo and Juliet."

Then to rewrite at a lower level:

"Mercutio is a character in Shakespeare's play Romeo and Juliet. He is known for being funny and making jokes. He also gets angry easily and is not afraid to speak his mind, even if it causes problems. Unfortunately, this trait leads to his death in a fight with Tybalt. Despite his flaws, Mercutio is a good friend and brave in battles. He adds interesting elements to the story of Romeo and Juliet."

Then to analyse the character in the style of a teenager:

"Yo, so Mercutio is like this total wild card in Romeo and Juliet. He's always cracking jokes and making puns, even when things are getting serious. Like, dude never takes anything seriously. But at the same time, he's also super impulsive and quick to anger. Like, he doesn't think before he speaks and it gets him into all sorts of trouble.

But even though he's got his flaws, Mercutio is also a total ride or die friend. He's always there for Romeo and the rest of the gang, and he's not afraid to stand up for what he believes in. Plus, he's a total warrior. Like, he's not afraid to throw down in a fight, even if it means putting himself in danger.

In the end, Mercutio is just a complex dude. He's got all these different sides to him - the jokester, the hothead, the loyal friend, the warrior - and they all come together to make him this really interesting and dynamic character. He definitely adds some depth to the story of Romeo and Juliet."

That really isn't that good an answer. No quotations. No analysis. It's more like what a US student would be required to produce.

Wonder how it would cope with writing a film screenplay to a specific brief and word limit. Poorly.

The thing about saying ' get them to do it all in class is that this eats into teaching time. I vote handwritten submissions.

Legacy · 31/12/2022 14:54

I had a chat to my uni-age DS about this. He says it's the sort of thing people would use if they were up against a coursework or essay deadline and had no chance of doing a proper essay in time. The reasoning is that if you submit nothing then you will get 0%, but even this relatively low level AI generated stuff is likely to help you clear the basic pass mark of 40%.

He's aware of it but hasn't used it (and I tend to believe him). If he IS using it, then good for him, 'cos he's consistently getting 70%+ marks in a humanities subject Grin.

My other DS is a computer scientist and says there is a LOT of discussion about this and the ethics/ future in education etc at the moment.

Swipe left for the next trending thread