Please or to access all these features

Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

10 GCSEs - the norm?

101 replies

ImStillMe · 28/12/2022 19:04

DDs school expect 10 GCSEs to be taken (including 3 separate sciences).

Is this the norm now, and is 10 expected by RG universities? I took 8 in my day...

DD is predicted 7-9 in all her subjects but has a health issue which means I think 10 is a lot.

What is the process if you don't think your child can sit all 10? Her invisible illness means she presents as well but as her parent I see her fatigue etc...

OP posts:
WombatChocolate · 31/12/2022 11:54

Perhaps people are forgetting that what they start off doing isn’t the same as what they might actually sit.

One of the features of the very successful selective schools is that they adjust the curriculum as students go along, to maximise GPA (grade point average). So the majority might well start with 10 subjects….and that’s what parents are aware of. However, as the course progresses, some will drop a subject or even 2. The attitude is taken that it’s better to have fewer subjects (as long as there are still a good number…and 8 is perfectly acceptable, sepsecially sunce the new specifications with more content were added) at high grades than more with lower grades. So, better to have 9 subjects at all 8/9 grades than have 11 with a few 7s thrown in there.

An interesting thing is whether schools now promote this and actively encourage a bit of dropping if subjects, because it’s really in the subset interests of students or for school data and league table benefit. It’s probably a bit of both.

Lots of here are talking about what they did back in the day. It’s different now - there isn’t coursework and many subjects have 3 exams and all have at least 2. Students taking 10 subjects may well have 25 exams or more. The content has increased that needs to be revised. So whilst there is certainly benefit if breadth and GCSE level study is about breadth, you can take this too far. With 8 subjects, a student can have the breadth of languages, humanities, sciences, creative subjects and Eng and Maths. They can display breadth, but probably more important for the top students, than having 10/11/12 subjects, is actually having really top grades across the board.

In the very selective schools, able students who might get all 9s, might not be all pushed to take further maths GCSE, simply because that extra subject might take up a disporoportionate amount of work and reduce the overall GPA. Likewise, many students have a weaker subject that needs a lot of work. Schools take the view that if they drop that, lots of time is freed up to get higher grades in the rest and they will still have a brilliant range of subjects.

Indepenent schools are also not constrained by Ebacc measures. They don’t usually push a language as something that’s non-negotiable because they know that what matters for UCAS offers at top unis on top courses, is having the best GCSE profile and A Level predicted grades, to get offers, and that as long as someone has a decent amount of subjects with some academic ones, having a language and a humanity isn’t actually that important, unless those are what you want to study. Ebacc has no real meaning for individual students in terms of opening doors, and is purely something schools are judged on. So whilst a good broad education at GCSE is certainly good, and schools which previously were gaming the system with all kids of iffy subjects that were counted as ‘GCSE equivalent’ for league table purposes, needed to be stopped from doing this, a broad education can take a number of forms and doesn’t have to be really prescriptive to Ebacc levels. Independent schools have that flexibility, which state schools might not. One reason they might get better results in some cases, is that there might be more feeedom for even stronger candidates to drop their diff Inuktitut language part way through, or drop something else. Those schools have the staffing and resources to be able to timetable support sessions into the time freed up, which state schools might struggle to provide.

So, I’d say it’s difficult to give conclusive answers because in any one school, there will be students studying a wide range of numbers of GCSEs. In the past the higher the number, was seen as a badge of honour. That’s passed now, and as long as students have a good number (9 would probably be the norm) that’s p more than adequate to show their academic level.

RampantIvy · 31/12/2022 11:19

keepaweatheredeye · 28/12/2022 22:15

I did 13 22 years ago and was fine!!

What happened 22 years ago isn't really relevant compared to today's GCSEs which are less coursework based and more content heavy.

sashh · 31/12/2022 03:34

Oher · 29/12/2022 18:32

What I do find very odd is every school I look at makes English literature compulsory at GCSE but history is optional. Many also make religion compulsory but won’t allow children to study both Geography and History.

Why on earth is reading fiction more important than learning actual facts about how our societies came to be?!

This is progress 8 at work. English is 'double weighted' but only if the child takes both language and literature.

RE is a compulsory subject.

Only 1 of history or geography is counted in progress 8.

ISawFreeShips · 30/12/2022 23:33

9 is the norm at our very academic state school. Quite a lot do triple sci to make 10, and some do extra maths and English instead so they get 8. We have had no encouragment at all towards 10, and they are very supportive of DC choosing double sci. 8 GCSEs is the norm at 2 other good state schools in our town.

There should be flex for students who have particular needs. Lack of double sci is a shame, it's such an obvious way to take the pressure off a bit. They may agree for her to drop one or two subjects but there needs to be a plan for "what they do with her" in those periods. Some schools may push back on her just going to the library to do HW, for example, and insist she needs to be in a lesson. But others may be fine with it. My feeling is there should be a solution that makes it possible. We have it with an EHCP but without that, it might help to involve the SENCo.

BaconAndAvocado · 30/12/2022 19:53

TeenDivided Yes, he is doing the foundation paper so can only get a max grade of 4 or 5.

TeenDivided · 30/12/2022 19:48

They may well say no as they may think with a bit of effort he could get a 4 or 5 on the foundation paper (he is at a grammar school after all, unless there is e.g. dyslexia).
They may say he has to keep attending the lessons even if not entered due to supervision requirements.

BaconAndAvocado · 30/12/2022 19:45

TeenDivided · 30/12/2022 19:23

Can you ask school to withdraw him from the exam?
If sat, the grade will have to go on UCAS application.

Thanks, I didn’t think of that!
I will phone them next week.

DontMakeMeShushYou · 30/12/2022 19:27

9 is/was the standard number at my DC's school. One now at uni, one doing A Levels so it seems to be a perfectly adequate number.
In fact their school works on the principle that 9 good GCSEs is better than 10 or 11 with a couple of weak results.

TeenDivided · 30/12/2022 19:23

BaconAndAvocado · 30/12/2022 19:20

The DC’s (grammar) school does 10, or 11 if you take Further Maths.
As DS2 got a 3 in his Spanish mock I’ve told him not to revisit at all for this subject, so realistically he’ll be taking 9 this year.

Can you ask school to withdraw him from the exam?
If sat, the grade will have to go on UCAS application.

BaconAndAvocado · 30/12/2022 19:20

The DC’s (grammar) school does 10, or 11 if you take Further Maths.
As DS2 got a 3 in his Spanish mock I’ve told him not to revisit at all for this subject, so realistically he’ll be taking 9 this year.

Phineyj · 30/12/2022 18:09

The important question from the school's point of view is what the students would do with the free periods. In the independent school I used to teach at, students could drop down to 6 or 7 if they were really struggling (norm was 8 or 9) but this meant they needed a lot of supervised study - the school had sufficient rooms and staff for this. State schools might not. You can't have 14-16 year olds roaming the place!

TashaBasha · 30/12/2022 17:28

Yep, was the Norm when I did them back in 2007

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 30/12/2022 17:27

The school I attended was 13, but it's dropped to 11 now.

JaninaDuszejko · 30/12/2022 17:26

The DCs school does 9
English Language
English Literature
Mathematics
MFL (lower sets don't do a MFL and spend more time on English)
Double Science
then 3 choices (one of which can be triple science).

I was at school in Scotland and we did 7 O grades so 9 seems more than enough.

PeekAtYou · 30/12/2022 16:52

My dd did 8 (Combined Science and her school doesn't offer an extra maths qualification like Further Maths) and had offers from RG unis

justanotherdaduser · 30/12/2022 14:44

@TeenDivided , yes good point. Didn't think of the long left tail. 9 is more realistic.

TeenDivided · 30/12/2022 14:38

@justanotherdaduser But the mean is skewed by the pupils with sen who take 6 or fewer. More take 9 than take any other number.

So we have mean = 7.85
Median = 8 (just, 42% take 9 or more)
Mode = 9

There is quite a long tail at the lower end of 0-7 compared with a much shorter tail at the upper end of 11+

I agree that 10 is not the norm, but I would argue starting with 9 is more likely the norm than 8.

justanotherdaduser · 30/12/2022 14:05

About 8 is the norm in England. 10 is absoutely not the norm.

This page has the stats since 2018 -
www.gov.uk/government/publications/infographic-gcse-results-2021/infographics-for-gcses-2021-accesible

In the last few years at least, it has never reached 9, let alone 10

10 GCSEs - the norm?
Mangolist · 30/12/2022 09:25

I did O levels and the max was 8, which I did - I honestly don't think anyone at my (reasonable comprehensive) did more than that

TeenDivided · 29/12/2022 18:52

Numbers taken before the gcse reforms are irrelevant.

DDs comp the standard was 9.5, with 10.5 for those doing triple sciences.

Greatly · 29/12/2022 18:45

Aquasulis · 29/12/2022 18:33

This most private schools drop them down to increase their pass rate

Well they are very sensible then, as they are increasing their students pass rate, not the schools.

Aquasulis · 29/12/2022 18:33

BackT · 28/12/2022 20:07

Private school does 9 max. A lot drop to 8.

I think 8 top grades is better than 11 middling grades.

This most private schools drop them down to increase their pass rate

Oher · 29/12/2022 18:32

What I do find very odd is every school I look at makes English literature compulsory at GCSE but history is optional. Many also make religion compulsory but won’t allow children to study both Geography and History.

Why on earth is reading fiction more important than learning actual facts about how our societies came to be?!

cantkeepawayforever · 29/12/2022 18:30

Overall, I think the absolute max was 13, with Additional Maths and 2x further MFL offered after school. I think only 1 pupil in Dd’s year did all 4 language GCSEs that were possible, and they have gone on to Oxbridge to do MFL.

Oher · 29/12/2022 18:29

It’s the norm to do at least ten.

20 years ago when I did mine at an itterly rubbish school I was still expected to do ten GCSEs (incl dual science).

Round here some schools do 12 GCSEs.

If you don’t think she can cope, speak to the school.