Missing out on School Trips

Lots of trips do curriculum work based on the trip, eg Geography. They often do the work whilst actually there. It is difficult to replicate study of some things in the classroom. So that’s why the op needs to look at the curriculum. What does the school say pupils should get? I don’t see this as a race to the bottom. It’s a big divide between state educated and private schools though.

Is it actually 20 out of 240 that don’t get a spot, or is it that there are 240 in the year? My sons school does ballots for trip. There are 240 in the year ….. the trip has 90 spaces and maybe 40 get put on the waiting list. So in reality there are 150 kids that don’t go on the trip. It’s always sad missing out on a ballot, but as I said to my son, there will be loads of kids who don’t even get the choice to be in the ballot because they can’t afford it. It’s even tougher for them. I would be amazed if a school ran a trip with capacity for 220 out of 240 kids in a year.
This sounds more likely to me.

An optional residential is not part of the curriculum. It's difficult enough to run a residential trips to run for 60-90 pupils in terms of staffing and arranging cover staff and the workload actually arranging and running it.

An optional trip of over 200 would be a logistical nightmare.

The trips my DD went on weren't curriculum, they were curriculum enrichment.

Unless the school then does lessons based on the trip, they are under no obligation to take everyone. The most DC's school ever took was 90/250 to Paris in y7. Most trips were around 30 only.

There are some DC who won’t want to go. They will have the curriculum delivered in another way. That’s what the school are likely to say. However most people see a difference between opting out and being balloted out of a curriculum activity.

I think that is a poor way of doing it, and 'policy' isn't a good enough reason. They need to change the policy so that those rejected for previous trips get priority.

I disagree withTizer though. At secondary these trips usually supplement the curriculum, they aren't a core part. ( I also think it is unusual to take 220/240 anywhere and wonder whether the OP is mislead as to how many actually go.)

I think it is really important you talk to your son and make sure you have the correct story before you do anything else.

OP, @TizerorFizz makes good points. The more data you have, the more seriously you will be taken

I believe that, as it’s part of the curriculum, all get the opportunity. The school will say they will replicate the curriculum in school but we all know that is not really possible.

There is now the issue that the Dc who have been chosen will not want to back out.

I would, however, complain. I would also look at the curriculum documents. What should Dc get? All Dc. What is their school trip policy? Look it up. I would go armed with info and explain that they cannot use a random selection policy if the trip is part of the curriculum. This point is crucial and must be part of your argument. It’s not skiing or Alton Towers! The trip matters!

OP,

This is an awful system to be sure. But it does matter whether over 200 students will have gone on two trips or whether the numbers are much smaller. Based on comments from PPs you need clarity on that, and we would be interested to know.

As PPs have said, it would be more fair to give those who have missed out one year priority the next. If you get nowhere with your letter, I think this is serious enough to take to the Governors. Best wishes

This sounds really odd. I’ve never known a school do this. Are you sure there isn’t a reason they don’t want to take him?

@ElegantPuma I think the OP in this would love to get the chance to be grateful to the teacher though. I don't disagree with your post but it's irrelevant here.

Which has got absolutely nothing to do with this situation at all has it?

I presume that when the OP says 20 or so miss out, it's not that they take 220 out of 240, but that of those who wish to go about 20 can't.
Anyway, yes this is a rubbish way of deciding. I organise secondary school trips and we run on a 'names out of hat' basis once those with very poor behaviour are removed. However, for subsequent trips those who applied but did not get a place automatically given one (unless their behaviour has since become an issue). Where two faculties run residential trips in the same year we would also co-ordinate between us, and again give preference to those who had missed out on one.

I think it is entirely reasonable to suggest that although random allocation is a fair way to go, it needs to be slightly more sophisticated and take into account previous outcomes.

It would not be feasible for all pupils to go. Those of you who think this probably are not aware of the ratio of staff to pupils needed for a school trip. It very different from.ratio in classroom. Also the availability is probably set externally. If it is a y8 trip,I presume that the trip in y7 was something different? Life is not fair. I say that as someone who missed out on trips and experiences due to economic constraints when I was younger. At least now there are ways of offering support to pupils in this category.

Unacceptable way of doing things.

It sounds very odd that a school would take 220 of 240 children on a trip and leave a small number behind - this isn't normal at all and I would be asking why that is. Definitely they ought to be giving those left behind last year first priority.

But I can't help but think there is something more to this as it's a very unusual way to run a trip.

Is it actually 20 out of 240 that don’t get a spot, or is it that there are 240 in the year? My sons school does ballots for trip. There are 240 in the year ….. the trip has 90 spaces and maybe 40 get put on the waiting list. So in reality there are 150 kids that don’t go on the trip. It’s always sad missing out on a ballot, but as I said to my son, there will be loads of kids who don’t even get the choice to be in the ballot because they can’t afford it. It’s even tougher for them. I would be amazed if a school ran a trip with capacity for 220 out of 240 kids in a year.

well perhaps the OP would be grateful and say thank you or offer a bottle of wine if her child had actually been allowed to go! What is she meant to be grateful for at the moment? A trip has been organised and teachers have spent time looking after other children, but not hers.

That sounds very unfair, OP, and I think you're right to complain - not just that your child didn't get first dibs this year, but that anyone gets left out in a trip that most children in the year get to go on. Do they do these residentials every year in secondary? There must be a better way to organise that then - perhaps not every year for every year group, but once or twice for the entire year.

That's a ridiculous system, they just need to book more places and take everybody, where's the rationale?
But failing that then the ones who missed out should automatically go on the list for the next trip before the ballot starts. I'd have to kick up a big fuss I think.

When we talk about class parties the usual answer is ask everyone or ask 50%.. the same should apply here.. accomodate the entire year or make it 50/50 in school / on trip. And yes... efforts should be made to ensure students don't miss out several years in a row.

Jeez, if I was a teacher giving up my time to organise the bloody trip, then spending day and night for several days looking after other people's children with no extra pay, no TOIL, and often not even a bottle of wine or a "thank you" from the parents I'd just stop now.

Who has told you about the ballot?
Is it your son or have you heard from the school directly?

It seems very odd that in a school of 240 students, they would take 220 on a trip and leave so be behind. Taking 20 more doesn't make much difference in the accommodation arrangements, or the number of staff. I am surprised all parents can pay as well.

It is probably more hassle for the school to have 10 to 20 staying behind than to take them.

At first I thought it was unfair your child didn't get an automatic selection the second time round but I've now changed my mind.

The school is beyond unfair to leave 2 - 8% of children out from the trip. That's blinking shocking of the school. So forget about getting first dibs the second year, none should be left out of any year.

I mean, is this for real? I can't think of any schools even contemplating doing this.

contact the chair of governors to express your concern. I suspect this is an oversight. of course kids that missed our last year should get a guaranteed space this year, only fair… but now they’ve allocated spaces it might be hard for them to backtrack. Hopefully they will find a way to redress the balance.

That's ridiculous. Are they claiming that the venue cannot accommodate everyone? Then they should run two trips. I'd consult the LEA or if an Academy I'd be kicking up a massive fuss - Ofsted, social media, local papers.....

Force the head teacher to understand that is not acceptable.