Missing out on School Trips

And as a pp said so many people moan about the cost....

I think it's a shame but a sign of the times. COVID probably gave a natural break and on reflection most teachers don't want to re-start offering trips.

TizerorFizz
So as I said, the departments in the schools I worked at ran an enrichment trip so I've no idea why you're going on about rules.

The idea that we should scrap trips unless staff are willing to take several hundred pupils and anyone who wants to go would quickly see the end of such trips, and then the people saying it's unfair can pat themselves on the back for stopping any of the children having those opportunities. But you won't be making things fair. You're just ensuring that the only children who get those opportunities are the ones whose parents can afford to take the whole family to the theatre, or to another city, or to visit the capital.

BungleandGeorge
It's staffing. Teachers have to be available 190 days of term time plus 5 PD days.
A residential trip involves being on call 24hours a day do several days with no overtime pay. The ones I've done tend to involve giving up all/part of your weekend too, and longer ones start part way through the final week of term and run into the start of the holidays.

How many people would sign up to use their annual leave to look after 200-250 pre-teens/teenagers unpaid in a different city/town/country? It's no different for teachers.

Aside from that, some schools I've known have reduced most trips, including day trip curriculum ones due to the cost of cover. Others allow smaller ones to reduce the number of staff off site as there's not enough people available to cover.

@solidaritea

*Why do people say this shit? Followed by the next one saying go straight to governors.

Talk to the school first. If not resolved, follow the complaints procedure*

I would put an earlier step.
Talk to the son and make sure this is actually what happens. I think the son doesn't want to go on the trip and has made up this story.

Why do people say this shit? Followed by the next one saying go straight to governors.

Talk to the school first. If not resolved, follow the complaints procedure.

Don't go to Ofsted, the press, the governors, local authority, MP, diocese, your local busybody etc. Until you've done the normal, human thing and discussed with the school.

It's definitely not an ok way to sort out trips. So tell them. If no good solution is offered, then go up the chain of command to complain. Don't start nuclear.

Your priority is to see if you can get a place for your child. There will be a number who drop out for whatever reason. Write a note to the teacher/head of year asking to be put on the waiting list. ‘Jonny missed out last year and was really disappointed to miss out again, especially as all his friends are going and it’s his favourite subject. It a place comes up we’d be delighted to accept it’.

Surely any ‘enrichment’ (extra) trip shouldn’t take place during school time. School hours are for the curriculum otherwise you’re providing a two tier education system. And some of the kids are going to have to catch up. If 3 days school are missed, some of the kids are in lessons and some are not when and how is that going to be caught up between them?

The rules are pretty clear. If you are seeing a play that Dc are studying, you offer it to all. It’s not enrichment in my book. It’s the curriculum. Enrichment is going to see any play because you study drama. If Dc cannot all go, it’s unfair to select a few. By ballot or otherwise. Why should a few get better teaching/education? Yes, it’s 4 coaches plus. Ask for contributions for the coaches. Or don’t run the trip. Or make sure trips are offered on a rotating basis.

Ski trips are purely optional. Nothing to do with the curriculum. Therefore a child not going doesn’t miss out on curriculum study.
A 3 day residential trip for every year group, paid by parents, where the school apparently take more than 200 children, leaving 10-20 children at home who want to go on the trip does not sound like a curriculum trip. It sounds like there's wires crossed somewhere.

It sounds like there is an enrichment residential by one of the departments to with a set number of places.

If a department run an enrichment trip, even if it supports the curriculum, it doesn't make it a curriculum trip. E.g. Schools I've worked at have organised theatre trips in the English/Drama departments. There's a set number of places for a 3 day trip to London. It isn't a curriculum trip though, but we still had complaints from some that we didn't offer more places, why it's unfair that their DC didn't get to go, etc.

@LolaSmiles
Ski trips are purely optional. Nothing to do with the curriculum. Therefore a child not going doesn’t miss out on curriculum study.

That's such a shame, you would think they would prioritise those who had missed out the first time, with a smaller ballot. :-(

What about odd way of doing things. All children should be given equal rights to trips. I can understand your frustration, I'd be putting in a.seripus complaint.
Wave goodbye to most enrichment trips then.

My school did a ski trip and there were limited places. It meant that children who'd otherwise not go skiing, either due to family not doing it or funds, had a chance to have that experience. I didn't do it, but it was a popular trip.

If the expectations becomes that teachers give up their own time unpaid to take every child who wants to go on every trip, you'll quickly find the number of volunteers decreases.

I've not done a residential trip since I had DC because the additional work of planning and leaving cover, the evenings/weekends/holidays (where they run into the holidays) isn't worth it to be spending time with other people's children over my own. I've enjoyed most of the residential trips I've done, but there's not a single residential trip I'd have volunteered for if it mean taking over 200 children.

What about odd way of doing things. All children should be given equal rights to trips. I can understand your frustration, I'd be putting in a.seripus complaint.

Yes children who missed out getting priority seems the obvious and fairest way forward.

Things have gone a bit pearshaped with this policy in COVID. We had a massive "fun" trip in Y7 cancelled, then all the kids who'd been signed up to it then got priority on the more educational trips in Y9/Y10, crowding everyone else out. That feels unfair to me, those children taking the places over children whose parents had been saving the money towards more educational trips later on. However that's a very specific issue of the policy being used beyond what it was intended for, and it is not what OP is describing. If it's just a few kids who missed out last time, it seems very harsh for that to happen again. But do be sure of your facts OP.

@Itsmylife2 your suggestion to the school that children who missed out on previous ballots should be prioritised next time is completely reasonable and, so long as you expressed it reasonably in your email to the school, I think you should expect a positive response not a negative one. The organisation of school trips probably isn't joined up at the moment - the two trips will have been organised by two different teachers, separately following the school's ballot procedure without thinking through the consequences. They just needed someone to point it out, and that's what you've done. Good luck with the next trip!

This is exactly right. School trips are a headache and complaining parents don't help. For those who say 'complain to Ofsted, I'd love to know what you think Ofsted will do!

@Iamnotthe1
Schools cannot charge for the education received when dc are on a trip. They can charge for transport, accommodation and meals.

Optional extras or enrichment can be charged but the Government says that these must not be part of the national curriculum. So therefore the op must check. What is the trip covering?The National curriculum as described by the school in their curriculum documents, or not.

This is what happens at our school afaik
Covid has put paid to these things
My son y10 has been on precisely one day trip

Totally agree with @Testina. It’s not simple to say if you miss out this time, your’ll get next time. People aren’t going to sign up to the 2day year 7 local camping trip if it reduces their chances at getting on the yr 8 watersports in Devon. Or it then reduces their chances to go on the year 9 trip to Spain.

Like others, I think you’ve made a mistake here. It’s really hard to imagine that a school runs a residential and takes 220/240.

Honestly you’d get 20 - simply don’t want to go, can’t go (e.g. bedwetters who don’t want to risk that), can’t afford to go…

But say it’s 100 that go. You could then say that only the other 140 names go into the hat next year. But - this is a Y8 trip. Y8 is over. So what actually is the Y9 trip? What if parents say, “hang on, Y9 is always Normandy battlefields and we prioritised Y8 residential. If we’d known Y9 would be Iceland volcanoes, we’d never have gone into the hat in Y8.”

What about Y9 starters. Do they get priority?

I expect there are actually good reasons why it gets messy to roll over priority.

I find it really hard to believe school are setting up a 220/240 residential.

Only 10 or 20 missing out out of 240?? Either your ds has been really unlucky or there is more going on. Talk to the teacher or HT.

It is possible to manage large trips. DD's year has over 430 pupils, and I believe the younger years are now closer to 460 students. Her school took over 400 of them to France for 4 days in the summer.

They have a range of trips - some are guaranteed places for all that want to go (curriculum trips) and subsidy schemes to ensure everyone can go, and optional trips where they pick names out of a hat.

If they do more than one optional trip then those who don't get a place on the first one are guaranteed a place on the next one.

TizerorFizz
My experience with curriculum field trips such as geography is that they are either half day/day trips for the whole year group as part of the curriculum, or they are GCSE/A Level residential field trips where the only people invited are the GCSE/A Level students on the courses.

They're not typically 200+ year 8s, leaving 20 at home and unable to access the curriculum.

Residentials are very rarely part of the base curriculum and only run as enrichment. Saying it was part of the base curriculum would mean:

1. Everyone had to go,
2. All payments from parents would be voluntary contributions and not a charged price,
3. In the likely event it was cancelled because not enough parents volunteered to contribute, the same learning could take place in school.

These trips sound like enrichments and the way they are organised and run is totally different to day trips. Most secondaries do a lottery draw in order to allocate places and typically only 25%ish of the year group can go (depending on the size of the year group). Most kids don't go to one because they don't even enter the lottery.

The other aspect of this is whether DC get trips when doing gcse study. This would be smaller groups. Could there be compromise that Dc who didn’t get onto trips in y7-9, get to do trips in y10-11?