What senior schools manage out pupils

So why hadn’t Sheffield Council stopped this? @Nat6999 It’s not legal. They surely know about it.

TigerorFizz they do a home visit & a meeting with the head for new Y7 pupils & gently hint to parents of pupils they don't think will be a good fit that they look at other schools.

@uk2020 Good. I hope she meant it. It was very ingrained in the culture.

@Orders76
Value for money is about offering an education where Dc actually succeed. A level courses should not be all that’s offered in a Bucks secondary modern (they call them all ability schools?) when there’s a huge grammar 6th form 5 miles away. Value for money is about ensuring DC get the education that’s right for them. It’s wasteful to have a vanity project 6th form teaching A levels only when you know most DC will get D snd E grades. The money should be used to offer alternatives. Or Dc go elsewhere where there is excellent provision.

The new head of OHS was asked specifically on this recently and she claimed she would never do that.

Apart from the private schools which you really know what you're getting into.... I cannot believe Ofsted or state schools are looking at education as value for money. No education is wasted education and that additional year could be the one to break institutional poverty or lack of education. Sometimes the UK really makes me despair.

I know two London state schools that ask kids to leave at the end of year 12 if their marks aren't up to scratch. I find it pretty shocking to kick kids out at that point, where are they supposed to go?

@Nat6999
He came from Newfield. I don’t think state schools can interview for y7 places. 6th form is different I think.

MCS and Oxford High School absolutely do this. I went to OHS and it happened to a friend of mine. They also managed out the daughter of a very well known family, her parents called the papers and there was a huge article about it in the Independent.

Lots do. Inspiration trust schools were notorious for gaming league tables and Ofsteds by supporting children into ‘more suitable schools’, getting advanced notice of Ofsteds and ‘hiding’ disruptive children during inspections.

those that claim not to be presumably wouldn't admit an external pupil they thought would fail the courses they wanted to study

No, but I'm sure that our school (along with many others) could replace the weaker students post-GCSE with stronger ones if it chose to. I think the difference between the more and less 'managing out' schools is that some will try to quite ruthlessly ditch their weaker students at 16 in an effort to climb the league tables, while others will see a responsibility to stick with their weaker students even if they're not going to achieve the chart-topping results.

My DC’s school had criteria for 6th form and if they didn’t achieve the grades expected, they weren’t allowed to join. My DS didn’t, but went to college and from there, to university.

To do a Level 3 BTEC, we ask for grade 4s in English and Maths, and usually at least 3 other subjects (some BTECs have other additional requirements). Obviously these are not high entry requirements, but we find that students without these qualifications struggle with the demands of assignments- BTEC assignments do require a reasonable level of written English!

Obviously we ask for higher grades to do A-levels.

There are lots of colleges that offer level 2 options for those who aren't ready for a level 3 course, but I'd say most school sixth forms, even those with a vocational offer, have entry requirements.

We can't support students to resit English and maths, so students MUST have a grade 4 in these to attend at a minimum.

I'd say all schools are selective post 16 to an extent- those that claim not to be presumably wouldn't admit an external pupil they thought would fail the courses they wanted to study?

My children are both at Kings Ely and absolutely love it. We have found the pastoral care to be exceptional and have nothing but praise for the school.

Our children (son and daughter who are polar opposite to each other interests and ability wise) are at King's Ely. They joined three years ago from our village primary school and it is the best decision we have made! We cannot fault the school in any way so far.

TigerorFizz yes the newish one beginning with M, they also have to sit an entrance exam & interview to get a place & the head has said there will not be any common rooms or anything social for sixth formers it will purely be academic study & anyone not meeting their standards will be out.

Surely they all do this to a greater or lesser extent? Just different shades of grey. They can just stop taking your money if they choose, that's part of the deal. My experience is them doing this with children who have mental health difficulties rather than academic ones, but I'd be amazed if they did the first and not the second. It's not much talked about though, so people don't always see it coming.

As PPs have said, state sixth forms have entry criteria too, though of course they may be higher at private schools, and sometimes a bit less transparent. I remember friends being "guided" away from certain A levels even though they got As at GCSE.

@sheepdogdelight
Sorry! Not trying to be obtuse!

I do know some schools have tried to get rid of pupils in y12. During the 6th form when internal exam results were not good enough. Not allowing Dc into the 6th form for A levels with 4/5 grades at GCSE is a different conversation. Many schools have minimum qualifications for A levels.BTec is usually a lower bar.

Ofsted want to see limited school budgets spent on pupils who then achieve decent grades. A string of D/E grades at A level with no alternative courses offered (or the wrong advice given) makes them say a 6th form is not value for money. It also means the school should offer alternative courses in the 6th form and evaluate the school population and quality of teaching. Many do offer alternatives. Some rightly cater for DC who are bottom 20% achievers by offering alternative courses. This is why many can stay at school but not do A levels.

@TizerorFizz I'm not sure I understand your point, but I suspect you are agreeing with me. And the poster who said that all students at her school could move into the sixth form was not referring to ones that got GCSE results that would preclude further sixth form study .

@sheepdogdelight
The thread is about not allowing DC into the 6th form after GCSEs. Well the op asked that anyway. Therefore other courses should be considered by those with level 4/5/6 GCSEs.

@Nat6999
I would love yo know which school. The newish one?

My necessary school only accepts pupils in sixth form with minimum grade 7 in all subjects, it is a Micheala type school in Sheffield.

A colleague of mine had a child there some years ago. When it became apparent that he wasn't going to achieve academically, they put a lot of pressure on the parents to remove the child. What I couldn't understand was that this was half way into Year 10 after GCSE courses had started.

Of course - but this thread is about managing pupils out at sixth form level. It's not a case that students who don't get sufficiently good grades to go on and take A Levels will just do BTECs instead - they in turn have their own entry criteria. There will be some students who aren't suited to a school sixth form environment, whether that is to study GCSEs or BTECs.

In terms of the poster who said her school don't make anyone leave, she's since clarified that this is because all students get very good results anyway.

Yes. They do. However they are more practical and focused on a career. Therefore can suit some DC. Even a 6 at GCSE might not elicit great results at A level. So it’s being sensible and mixing qualifications for Dc so it brings out the best in them.

BTECs generally have entry criteria as well ...