Grammar vs Independent

I was in your positions a year and half ago and chose Grammar. Huge mistake!
I returned my son to his prep for the last year and planning to send him to a very selective independent school.
To me it depends on where your child is now and how they are academically.
When my DS joined the grammar the specialist teachers told him that he already knew everything that they were supposed to teach until y10, in some cases he was told already GCSE level. So he wasn't stretched at all. Very little work at school with many hours lost to cover teachers.
Additionally, a little bit of bullying and made my DS from someone wanted to go to school to someone who had physical symptoms and didn't want to go to school.
Would he be getting to a good uni from Grammar? Most likely yes. And I would have saved a lot of money!
Would he have learnt less than what he is learning now? Definitely yes.

With my DD2 we did independent primary then grammar for secondary and it has totally exceeded our expectations. We were lucky that the grammar was voted the best secondary school in London at the time, and the results were amazing, as we would have sent her to independent secondary if not. We wanted to do single sex schools for DDs and mixed for DS.

There is no way of being sure how selective independents are, unless they disclose it. Generally, they don't participate in the performance/league tables. They might publish data on how many applicants there were for places available, though? That might give you some knowledge.

The idea that unis unfairly favour kids from state-funded settings, is incorrect. Your child will in no way be disadvantaged by going to a fee paying school.

I think you just have to pick whatever school is best for your child and think about what they would prefer also. An hour commute each way is tricky; how will they meet up with friends outside school? Success and happiness in life is about more than marginal gains on A level grades. Grades are very important but they aren't the whole story by a long shot.

I only know about the schools near me - it’s possible that those in your area are different.

The selective state schools in my area (not technically grammar schools) are wildly oversubscribed. Partly because there are very few of them. Entry will be solely on the exam results - interviews are not allowed. It’s free to enter the exams so many people put their children in as a practice for the paid for independent exams.

The independent schools will have exams, interviews and request a reference from the head. How selective they are depends on the school. I suppose it is possible that a really famous independent school could be more selective than a grammar.

Re the league tables - yes, look at them but don’t make that all you look at. The previous headmaster for my children’s prep school once said that when you look at school rankings, there won’t be that much between schools that are in the top 100 or so. Pick the school that you and your child like the most.

When looking at A level results, please bear in mind that many schools have pupils join or leave. Boys’ schools that admit girls for sixth form often experience a boost in their results.

Hi OP

I would go and visit both schools before making a decision one way or another. I don’t know either school (or where you are) - it’s too easy for me to say “Yes! Do the hour’s journey for an 80% chance at an A*!” or “No chance! The grammar every time!”.

It’s possible that the grammar is simply less selective than the independent (difficult to imagine but it’s possible that your area differs from mine) or that the independent gets great results by only allowing children who are almost certain to get an A/A* to do the A level.

This is one where it isn’t possible to decide solely on the results vs the journey.

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that if your child is OK with and understands the journey and if the independent has a better curriculum offering, then go with that. If the curriculum offering is the same or very similar, go with the grammar.

DD chose a v selective independent an hour's journey away over a super-selective grammar about half an hour away. I mention the selectiveness because I think probably both schools have very similar populations of pupils in terms of ability so that was not a factor in the decision. I did want her to be at a school where she would have lots of intellectual peers because her primary experience had not been good in that way and she was unhappy at times because of it.

One of the main reasons both she and I preferred it was because the GCSE choices were better - the language provision in particular was streets ahead. I thought DD would be good at languages and she is and I was happy to send her somewhere where everyone would do at least three languages (Latin and two MFLs) for the first few years and have the option to do more than one at GCSE. The grammar offered two languages in total plus Latin. Sure, they could do all three for GCSE but there wasn't any choice. The independent offered a choice of six with taster sessions in Y7 so that DD could find out which she actually liked and wanted to study. DD could have done four languages at GCSE if she had wanted to (two MFLs plus Latin and Ancient Greek). If she'd been a more scientifically minded child, I think the grammar would have been almost as good for her really. But she's not especially interested in Maths or Science, and in addition to languages, the art, music and drama opportunities offered a lot more which was important to both of us.

So look at the curriculum and the GCSE options and think about what would suit your child. And also ask your child about the journey. For DD it means that she leaves the house no later than 7.30am and doesn't get home until 5pm. That's a really long day for an 11 or 12 year old and she is still wiped out at the end of term at 16 years old. Only you know if your child or children would be OK with coping with that.

In short, for us the curriculum was the deciding factor, not the journey!

Are you in Northern Ireland as A/A* hasn't been used at GCSE in England for quite a while?

You can't tell whether the results are good or not without understanding the intake. As I said upthread - if the grammar takes students in the top 25% and the private school selects the top 10%, then it's not that surprising if the private school results are markedly better.

What data are you looking at? I don't believe last year's A Level data (which is the results you quoted) is available for this year yet. So you'll be looking at 2019 data, which is 3 years out of date.

The concept of pushing up C candidates at A Level doesn't really exist - the school will just want everyone to get as high a grade as possible.
And a grammar school is unlikely to have many (any?) students at the 3/4 borderline for GCSE.

I'm not sure why you think spoon feeding is good thing. It might help them get better GCSE/A Levels but they will struggle when/if they to university.

My children are in state and I would pick the grammar because of the distance. I didn't consider the grammar 1+ hour away for this reason.

Choose the grammar. I had a long car journey to an independent school and it was no fun. If extra curricular are poor, you can afford sports/drama/ music/whatever.

My children went to an independent singe sex school. If there had been a grammar option locally, they would have gone there, especially if it had been closer!

My children are at an independent and I’d choose your grammer!

Hi, nothing earth shattering from me, but…

1. That’s a heck of a commute. How will they meet friends after school (lots of taxiing)
2. academically most grammars are up there if your child is bright - perhaps more so than a mid range independent. My DSs did not get into grammar, but did get into a v academic independent, where they are thriving. Stellar gcses and hopefully A levels.
3. thinking about university, you may stand a bit more of a chance from a grammar. Not necessarily, but DS school has seen Oxbridge success rate fall by 50% in recent years.
4. and that’s a heck of a lot of money…

The independent is an hour away so might very well not be in the grammar county! (Particularly if the grammar is 20 minutes in the opposite direction to OP). An hour from us (in almost any direction) would take you over at least 1 and mostly 2 or even more county borders.

I note in either case that OP is assuming her DC will pass entrance exams. Always good to have a Plan B!

Grammar, unless it's one of the shit ones in Kent that isn't close to subscription levels...

Usually in grammar counties, most people opt for the grammar unless they can’t get in. The independents don’t get to skim off the brightest as they do in areas where grammars aren’t available so those results surprise me and make me wonder how good an education the grammar is providing.

We chose independent over grammar. Our DS benefits from co-ed and the independent is stronger pastorally, which he needs. It’s a bit kid dependent really, though also depends how much of a stretch it is too - it’s never worth making life difficult when you have two good options.

A level results aren't really important if you're looking for a secondary school. Many children move at sixth form.

I'd suggest comparing results is irrelevant as well unless you are absolutely sure you are comparing apples with apples. if the independent selects the top 10% of the ability range and the grammar the top 25%, then it's not really that impressive for it to get better results.

If you can get in I would always choose grammar over independent.

Have you visited the schools? Does the independent offer something you value that the grammar doesn’t (e.g. extra curricular activities). You haven’t actually mentioned any positives to the independent in your post so I think that gives you the answer.