Advice for A level choices please

Thanks all. Much appreciated.

It's doable, as you say, further down the CS league table.

Some, like Newcastle, 'encourage' A level computing (which your DS is doing anyway), and also require GCSE Maths (grade 6 in case of Newcastle), others have less stringent requirement (Kent, grade 4 Maths GCSE) etc.

One thing worth looking at is their syllabus. Kent with less stringent maths requirement still covers a decent amount of prerequisite maths in the first year (linear algebra, set theory, statistics, proofs, etc). Similarly for others too. So it's not possible to avoid maths entirely in a core computer science degree program, at least in first year.

That said, all of it is applied maths though, do not make up majority of the course content (even in first year), and I would imagine the universities will have good support for those modules, given A level maths isn't in their entry criteria.

Regarding career outside universities, I work in this sector and hire CS graduates, and haven't seen any preferential treatment for graduates with maths heavy CS degree. For sure a CV with Imperial or Warwick attract attention and will get an interview relatively easily, but for vast majority of CS graduate jobs in private sector, maths is not that relevant. There are some niche areas where its useful, but these roles often get filled with people from Maths or Physics background anyway.

Sorry quoting twice as not sure how to edit posts.

You cannot rule out a shot as OP's Mum has not given clarity on natural ability as much. She's given info on where he is standing from mock performance; that's different. If he's not considering FM at all, then of course that's out, but if he's better than his mocks show then there might be a chance. We need more info. I was admitted into a CS + Maths course at Imperial, although I switched to Maths in the end, so I think I know..

If you look back at my comments you would see that I was quoting another person who mentioned Imperial first and clarifying their stance. Please check.

@Boopear
Lancaster don’t offer on UCAS points! They went A levels, IB or BTec. I cannot see they mention UCAS points at all. Are you thinking of UCLAN?

@curiousllama
The op didn’t mention Imperial. There’s no shot at Imperial.

I assume you've already spoken to sixth form teachers about doing Computer Science and Physics without A Level maths (that would be a hard "no" at my DC's school and strongly discouraged at other places we viewed - my DS was also interested in this as a combination)?

The crucial point, for me, would not be "will he get onto a CS degree at university" but "will he cope with a CS degree" at university. Fortunately there is likely to be a correlation between universities that don't require maths A Level and those that require less mathematical type thought.

As per the FM maths conversation, the question better posed is not whether they would have him without Maths A Level, but how many students take the course without it.

So he's not really struggling with gcse maths, just may not expect to get a high grade at A level?
I'd say the best thing is to get advice from the horses mouth. Admissions tutors are there to help - when my dd was weighing up which A levels to do she emailed a few admissions tutors to ask their advice and got some very helpful responses.

Just jumping into this thread if i may. What are people's thoughts on doing CS without a maths a level at all? Son v keen on cs, but his maths gcse predictions not great (probably max 7) and he finds it difficult . It would seem that several unis (i appreciate not Russell group, but Lancaster as an example) are more focused on UCAS points rather than subjects, while the ones that specify maths are looking at A/A*. It would therefore seem pragmatic to focus on which A levels would gain the most points (he is doing physics and CS, but we need to make the call on maths as the 3rd or not) rather than running the risk of a low Maths A level grade. Are we being naive in this approach?

(Apologies for hijacking thread but I've been following and it seems to fit the discussion!)

And also, yes, I literally applied for CS courses when I applied to uni and got in so of course I read admissions criteria! If anything I think i am quite up to date.
FyI I am not a mum so went to uni fairly recently and joined more out of curiosity/colour for tutoring...

I was specifically referring to a shot at Imperial, not at every uni...

Although (to go slightly full circle with the thread) OP's DC is not specifically interested in a Computer Science degree, but in becoming a Software Engineer. It's likely that degrees that are less than theoretical than Computer Science (for example, software engineering!) will not need Further maths.

My DS doing Computer Science Degree, he did Maths, Computer Science and Physics. He is finding 1st year a little dull as going over a lot of stuff he did in Alevel (as not all done Computer Science Alevel) but he is enjoying it and the fact course for 1st term not too demanding so can focus on settling in.

No FM does not rule out many universities. Of course there’s still a shot!!! A big one! Have you read any admissions criteria? The elite ones will want FM (but do not always explicitly say so) but there’s so many more fantastic courses and universities.

Years ago LSE said they wanted FM for economics. They dropped that criteria. What proportion of Dc don’t have FM at that elite university who take economics? Very few. They want it, but don’t say so. The same with CS. Universities know some dc don’t get the chance to take it, so they don’t specify it. Most dc will have it though. However just avoid those elite universities and there is a whole world of great courses to choose from, even for the “lowly” student with just maths.

Was just giving info that is more realistic rather than get people's hopes up (not just OP but anyone who reads this) that without FM, there is still a shot

FYI I barely bothered with my mocks and my mock performance did NOT reflect my GCSE results...for many students, it's a wake up call for their real exams. And a 7/8 student in their mocks can pull it up to a 9, so i agree that going off just on that to narrow down unis is not a good idea. I do private tutoring for several students on the side and have witnessed this.

However! If natural aptitude in, say, Maths is not a 9 (i.e if the student needs to try quite a bit to pull it up to a 9) then I would suggest no FM, hence no point applying to Oxbridge/Imperial for CS

Nobody is 'writing anyone off'.

It is useful to look at courses and universities. Teachers often think Dc should stick to school subjects (eg CS) but there are other options, such as the one at Sheffield I highlighted. Sheffield is a great stem university so looking around at courses and entry requirements is often useful. It is important to tailor A levels to requirements. A DD of a teacher I knew did the wrong A levels for a vet degree. DD managed to get on a foundation course but that’s a hell of a lengthy degree! As a very bright child, she could, and should, have done the right A levels.

If he's not realistically likely to be expecting A stars then it's not too relevant what courses which require those grades want subject-wise.

I'd like to think a current 7/8 student at GCSE is capable of getting A*s at A Level.
Far too early to write them off anyway. Perhaps the desire to get to a particular university might spur them on.
Many schools won't predict high anyway, so those grades are only not necessarily accurate.

Yes and no. The context of this is choosing A levels, and a DC who does have some idea what subject he might want to do at uni. Having a look at a few courses to see what their requirements are may be helpful. If he's not realistically likely to be expecting A stars then it's not too relevant what courses which require those grades want subject-wise.

Seems a bit premature to say that a student working at 7/8s level at GCSE in November of Year 11 already has to prune down their list of university choices ...

I don't think most Year 11s will know where (or in many cases if) they want to go to university. My Year 12 doesn't have a clue either!

@BaconAndAvocado
But you didn’t indicate ds2 wanted Imperial. There are so many other options to explore!

I have two Y12s at different schools. Both are interested in CS.

One is taking A-Level
Maths, FM, Phtsics and CS.
The other is doing the same, minus FM.

A bit more time will tell what's realistic but there's a range of good options at the different grade levels and maths plus any two of CS, physics and chemistry (and fm as a 4th perhaps if he ups his game a bit) should be fine and keep quite a lot of stem courses open.

Why does everyone keep mentioning Imperial. This lad is not really up to that. He’s 7/8 GCSEs. Not 9s. He’s not guaranteed A* in anything and no FM rules if out realistically. So look at what is realistic.

It’s also vital to have some idea of what he’s aiming for @BaconAndAvocado . I don’t think he will go wrong with his choices but it pays to be informed. That’s why there is information about making A level choices. If students make the wrong A level choices, they might not get on some courses. Doing the best A levels to keep options open is vital. you then see how the A levels go and make course decisions. It’s often useful to think more widely than courses which attract high numbers of A* students.