Pipers Corner

Claire's Court does feel nice when you are there

@BewitchedorBewildered Exactly. It’s a case of being in the wrong school and making sure it’s the fault of everyone else. I come from a family who had money but didn’t spend it much. I like spending money and I’m not apologizing for it. My choice. It doesn’t make dc horrible.

So when parents visit Pipers, do they see the doorless loos? Just wondering! I’d leave in a hurry. They have loos without doors in townships in SA.

It's the 'old' and 'new' labelling of DC that I find distasteful rather than the terms themselves. There are over-confident and brash DC in every school in the country, from all walks of life. It's life. In most cases it has very little to do with the vintage of the family coffers.

BewitchedorBewildered BeeStrudel
I was taught the concepts of 'old money' / 'new money' at university and these are generally accepted terms to describe groups of people in society, so its interesting you describe this as 'quite distasteful'. The new money is nothing to do with ignoring people - its about flashing the cash because you now have it. A lot of Pipers girls have parents in the entertainment industry and the girls are well known for having very drunken parties at a young age.

Wycombe Abbey and Pipers are not comparable schools. And locally Wycombe Abbey girls are seen exactly as you have described them - polite and respectful.

There are a lot of lovely gentle Pipers girls but there are also an element of very confident Pipers girls who treat the more gentle Pipers girls appalling. When the school took the toilet doors off they told the girls it was because the younger piper girls were afraid of the older piper girls in the toilets.

We have now had experience of four high schools through our children and I don't recommend Pipers for the more gentle, anxious girl - but a confident, social girl like the poster asked about would likely be able to hold their own.

OP I would say that, whilst it is good to hear about other's experiences, it really is all about the fit of the child with the school. Children can have vastly different experiences in the same school. You are the best person to judge whether your own daughter will be happy there. I would go to visit Pipers on a normal school day with your daughter and have a couple of girls show you round. Ask them the questions that you think are more pertinent regarding your daughter thriving there. At the end of the day, go with your gut. Good luck.

This fixation on whether money is 'old' or 'new' is bizarre and I find it quite distasteful. My daughter went to Wycombe Abbey and nobody cared a toss about the provenance of fees. There were no splits and no need to ignore certain DC. The girls were generally polite and respectful and they came from a whole breadth of cultures and financial backgrounds. My advice would be don't look for problems that may not even exist.

@Ohnoooooooo It’s a grammar and wants good results. Ditto Pipers. It sells itself on good value added. There’s “new” money everywhere in the private schools. You just have to ignore some dc snd believe me, where the money comes from isn’t always what determines manners. There are very few independent schools in Bucks and old money still goes to boarding schools, eg CLC, Down House and Wycombe Abbey. No school is immune from pushing dc or somewhat unpleasant parents.

Sorry I should add they have sport at Pipers but its not known as a sporty school - in fact I don't think they ran a PE A level for lower 6th this year.

My daughter went to Wycombe High (exam hot house so moved), Pipers and then Claire's Court.

Unfortunately, we did not like Pipers - I kept kept comparing it to the experience and education her brother received at Sir William Borlase and both the pastrol and education side of things fell short. They get decent grades because they push the girls and my daughter had more homework at Pipers than her brother did in grammar school. My daughter left a nervous wreck because Pipers tries and gets the best grades so they can promote this to the new incoming parents so she felt under a lot of pressure.

We loved Claires Court - there is something special about that school and if you had of said your daughter lacks confidence etc I would have suggested she go there - but if you live near Pipers I think the distance is too great.
Pipers is also in a bubble - it makes the social side of Pipers really tricky as there are a lot of very confident wealthy girls there from 'new' money and so if your daughter doesn't gel socially with these very confident girls it can get bitchy. Worth also checking out how many girls are in year 11 and then how much there numbers drop for 6th form and you can see there is a max exodus they will tell you is because the girls leaving want to be with boys - but the other girls schools don't have this problem. So have a plan B for 6th form.

BUT if you live near Pipers (I think travel has a big impact on kids) and as you have described your daughter being confident/chatty and liking dance and drama - I think she will be one of the ones who does fine at Pipers.

I know countless parents who have been very pleased with schools like The Misbourne. You really do have to accept nowhere is perfect and obviously grammars focus on academics. However lots are over tutored and struggle. Bigger fools the parents. I also think year groups vary but you already haven’t liked a grammar that many are desperate to get into and rate highly. I have my doubts you will like Pipers either. They don’t get their results by being hands off but you shouldn’t get the sen or disruptive dc you don’t like.

@BananaMoon4 have you looked at Claire’s Court Senior Girls? They have good coach routes up into Bucks. Definitely not yummy Mummy land (it’s known as a “cheap” independent)). Most families I know there both parents work. If she’s sporty she could go for a sports scholarship.

I came across this thread while looking for reviews of Pipers as we are in the process of entering my daughter, and I am now questioning if it's the right thing to do. I have spoken to 3 current parents and 2 previous and only 1 had some negative thoughts about the school. We live very close so logistically it makes sense for us too.

DD is average academically. She is sporty and loves dance and drama. She is sociable and chatty. I am thinking Pipers would be a good fit for her.

I have 2 older children, one very bright and went to grammar. I, and my DD, felt grammar was a pushy hot house and the facilities weren't great - the buildings and aesthetics in the secondary modern my other DC went to were better! If you don't keep up you are constantly threatened with being shipped out (and by keep up I mean a prediction of at least a 7 across the board) My other DC went to the local secondary offering and it was awful - too big with too many disruptive kids that teachers do nothing about. DCs academics got progressively worse and the school just couldn't care less. I home schooled him and then moved him into the private sector.

So I am really trying to get it right for DD - I don't feel grammar or the local secondary are the right fit for her. I'm not a yummy mummy, we both work long hours and the fees will stretch us - so it has to be good value for money but most of all I want her to be happy.

We have also registered for Berko, but I don't think she's bright enough to pass the entrance exam. I like RMS but we couldn't get her there daily. Any advice appreciated!

@ButterBean1974 If it makes you feel any better, we noticed a huge change in the parent body of the school our DDs went to in Hertfordshire. It was truly odd. Most parents in DD1s year had mums who would talk to each other and a few were up themselves but a tiny minority. Move to DD2, just 3 years later, and her group of parents were unbelievable! I did find a few straightforward ones but it was like being at a totally different school. At our school it’s clear exam results have gone down. Turns out yummy mummy’s don’t have the brightest dc!

My daughter is in YR6, although new-ish she likes the school. As a mother I hate it, the bitchiness is palpable. The “yummy mummy”, “glamour model”, “professional dancer” brigade are out in force, looking down upon and degrading anyone who doesn’t fit their mould. I have met a few lovely down to earth working mums but I would really advise to think not only about your daughters well-being but consider the awful parents the school seems to attract. I wish we had never moved our daughter, this is despite what is great teaching, lovely facilities and an environment where most seem to succeed. My discomfort (less relevant) is increasing termly!

Partially correct, but not fully. Grammars, for their nicer manners, marks and (often) school grounds, are still underfunded and under resourced state schools and can only cater to the mainstream pupil. They cannot provide the feedback and continual care that a private school can, nor can they cannot provide the infrastructure of a private schools (drama/pools etc etc). They also require children to continually get strong academic results with the threat of expulsion or "not progressing" to A levels. This is particularly problematic for those kids who are fairly bright but were hot-housed to pass their 11+, very stressful (especially if their parents were not educated here and believe that simply getting them there was the end goal). I completely agree that it makes the comps less academic and makes parents who can afford it (or even those who can't, but themselves didn't go to Grange Hill and make this sacrifice for their kids), seek out private education (about to go up 20% under the #labour gov, and we'll see how the state system copes with all of the children who leave private due to cost and go to state schools). It's really about access to teachers etc for children who may not thrive under constant pressure or less cerebral environments.

I second that

I wouldn't worry about the cadets or sportiness, most kids at Berko are not like that I can gladly say!

@elevenduck I know quite a few girls who went there. A few years ago now but the same head. Not all didn’t get the 11 plus.My neighbours DDs did but still went to Pipers. Big fish in a small pond! I also find parents think a 1200 plus grammar school is too big for their dc and want smaller, more exclusive, private. Some parents just want 100% private from 3-18.

My dds boarded for secondary elsewhere and lots of dc from Godstowe prep did the same. There are people with plenty of money in the Bucks grammars but of course many want a local day private school and don’t want boarding. Pipers gave up with boarding. So Pipers has become the “go to” school for dc whose parents think they cannot flourish at a bigger school as pp articulates above . I think the grammars do a better job. Of course others are avoiding those dreadful dc who inhabit the Bucks secondaries! It’s always been the same. The change appears to be the parenting style, which rubs off on dc, and thinking you buy preference. Which you do.

Pipers recruits from its own prep and these days quite a few external applicants don’t get in. Around here, people use their prep if they definitely want Pipers because getting in if DD is average isn’t a given! Bucks has many higher attainers (over 30% in some secondaries) who don't get a grammar place so Pipers can pick
fairly bright dc from their applicants. If you look at GCSE results and A levels in the better Bucks secondaries you see fairly comparable results with Pipers at the top end. I don’t always see money equaling poor behaviour either. It’s more attitude and entitlement.

I think one of the problems in this area is that because the grammars cater so successfully to academic pupils, the private schools only really exist for less academic children, whose parents don't want them to mix with secondary modern children!

I grew up in a non-grammar area, and the private school I went to was super academic. There's nothing in the private sector like that around where we live in Buckinghamshire. Luckily, we were able to access the state grammar, but we wouldn't have considered private for the sake of private.

This school therefore likely attracts parents whose values are money/status over academic achievement, and that will be reflected in their children. I know an adult who went to this school (of course 20+ years ago) and she is not a balanced or happy person.

I think the grammars do a great job of settling pupils in. Let’s face it, the less well off “not ready” dc have to get on with it. And they do. It’s only people with money who have the luxury of Pipers. Except it isn’t great.

My dc went to private schools by the way. I’ve seen the “preferential”
parent favouritism first hand whose dc do no wrong and get a prize at every speech day for being “nice” pupils. Well not academic pupils anyway, I’ve seen a blind eye turned to all sorts of things including smoking in their bedroom, repeatedly lying to get other dc into trouble and generally having a smooth life in school because of parental background. Only a dc who ran away after a lot of bad behaviour was asked to leave. People do buy preferential treatment with donations and “name”
and it’s hard to take when others are more deserving. I doubt my DDs will use their old schools.

As you’ve already been told - we didn’t feel she was ready or particularly driven to sit the 11+. As a parent you try your absolute best. I got it wrong in this situation but we look and focus forwards. Reflecting and vocalising what we have experienced is important and hopefully will give a different angle than the brochures and website might give. Just my perspective and personal experience. 🙏

Completely agree with all you have said. Very interesting read and thank you for taking the time to post this. More of us need to do it. My daughter is now VERY happy at University in a flat of 6 girls ALL of whom are friendly and inclusive. She said to me, you don't realise how bitchy Pipers girls are until you experience something else and all my flat mates are SO lovely. I wonder if the school and school trustees read these comments. They ought to and they ought to take note. Change of ethos from the top desperately needed. Pipers is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Don't let the Centre Parks feel fool you.

For those commenting about why didn't you send your daughter to a grammar school at 11 yrs, anyone who knows anything about the grammar school system and the 11+ will understand that not all children are ready to cope with a grammar school and the pressure at 10 years!

@Namesté Loads of private schools are like this! Your face fits or it doesn’t. Why didn’t you do grammar at 11?

Short version - don’t do it! Longer version - Are you ready for this? My daughter left moved to an amazing grammar school and contrary to what Mrs NG tells you at parents evening - she seems to have been able to stop herself going boy mad. What has happened though is that she has never been happier. She has already made some incredible friends in such a short time with stronger bonds than she ever had at Pipers. Piper’s was awful for her and us. The parents are pushy and cliquey and all creep up to the head teachers. The teachers encourage this and it’s really very unpleasant. I had to sarcastically ask once if we were paying less fees than other parents due to the different level of effort then school were putting in - it didn’t go down well! My dd was severely bullied. Please note - they have a counsellor who is too busy and so you will need to pay for private therapy. Please also note that the bully’s parents are also paying the school fees so the child will never be taken to task over this - they don’t want to upset the parents! Academically it was fine and because my daughter was so unhappy all
she did was shut herself in her room and study. It was heartbreaking - but yay for
the Pipers stats - she got 8s and 9s! I wish I could start this next sentence better but far too many of the girls are very bitchy and if you don’t suit that (thankfully we don’t) you’ll be bullied. Not one of her “friends” kept in touch with her from the minute they collected their results. They used her for parties etc as she had a group of boys she knew from primary school and now she is not “useful” they have ignored her. It’s been really hard the past few years but the school
kept saying that she was fine at school - total rubbish. As soon as we left, the weight has lifted from our shoulders. Biggest regret of my life sending her there. She has moved on to an amazing school. She will only be there for two academic years in total which I wish could be much longer. You don’t realise how bad something really is until you’re out of it eh? So - if you’re happy to play the political game, agree with everyone and everything whilst also allowing for the same few girls to get every main part in a play, all the awards, scholarships (so that Mrs NG can try and retain the hefty donor parents or just keep the numbers in sixth form as healthy as possible) - Mrs NG suggested my daughter might be head girl - as we were considering leaving - it just confirmed our decision to leave. It felt very manipulative! Oh - and one year one parent emailed the school insisting her daughter was at least a deputy head girl when they came to decide. Every year they have two deputy head girls. This particular year, after that email - they had three! I could tell you so much more and it’s almost laughable if my daughter hadn’t been so badly bullied and dismissed by some of the staff. Not all - there are some gems there. Absolute gems - I’m not sure how long they will last because if they don’t toe the line……

IamfeelingHappy, that is very interesting to read. At the end of the day my daughter is doing what she wanted to do, more by default and our own efforts than from Pipers and she was never desperately unhappy or we would have moved her. We feel really, really disappointed and very let down by the school and wouldn't choose it again. My daughter wanted a day school but in hindsight I would be encouraging weekly boarding if finances allowed. There are many other issues which I won't write about on here. We do not feel it was good value for money. Whilst it's always full because there is no competition around here and we have excellent grammar schools things won't change. A change of Head is needed, but even then, it will take several years I suspect.