rubbish local secondary school choices - London - did you end up moving?

What's the school?

Or is this completely made up to prove a point that doesn't exist, @londongals

Its funny how Brampton Manor in Newham has 77% English as a second language, yet wipes the floor with most UK state secondaries for A level results....

Hi OP you sound like a lovely caring parent.
I live in se23 and teach in a challenging part of East London and have worked in mainly tough secondary schools in London for over 30 years. I am well old. I think schools are like mini universes, full of different people and subject to change. A student can have a fantastic experience at the same school another can really struggle in. I know that isn't very reassuring but a lot of the school experience is about what that student puts in.
Also st Thomas the Apostle in Nunhead has great reviews from people who have worked there. And from what I see of the local teenagers the schools round se23 are pretty good.
I think you should have a look at the schools yourself as so many posters have said and don't worry too much. Your son has your support which is so valuable.

There are boys from Sydenham and Forest Hill at St Olaves grammar (there is no catchment) but obviously it is very competitive to get in. 10 applicants to a place. Dartford Grammar (trains from Lewisham) also possibly an option, but again top scores needed. Have heard good things about St Dunstans and they offer scholarships (probably not worth loads but worth checking out). Kingsdale also good.

I think I'd go for Kingsdale and Charter with St Dunstans as a back up if you can pay. St Olaves Grammar, Dartford Grammar, Allen's and Dulwich College if they are academic/talented.

My niece lives in East London and is re-locating to Leeds for cheaper housing and better secondary schooling.

Same dilemma OP. DC also in year 2. Glad I'm not the only one worrying so early on!!!!! We moved from a deprived area of London (ex-council flat with ASB issues, drugs etc. on the estate) to another part of London when DC was 18 months old for it's outstanding primary.

Happy with our house and DC is happy at school but thinking of secondary options is scary...our local school is dire (ofsted "good" but results are shockingly bad and it's known locally for it's overall bad reputation...). Also not keen on single sex school (which would be next most local option). We can't afford a house like ours in a better postcode with better secondary schools so would have to significantly downsize....
It's a little stressful thinking about it because education is so important to us...I think we will have to sit tight and re-assess in year 4 approx....yr 5 latest. In the meantime we're supporting DC educationally and will see whether grammar is suitable (only 1 local grammar)..also keeping private in mind as a last resort....(although limited nearby options!)

I live in the same area.

I have one at Syd and one at FHB.

Have you looked around all the schools OP?

If you feel that FHB is such a poor school then you will have to pay for private or go for grammar.

St Dunstans is far less selective than Alleyns/DC etc

Also re general behaviour on the street - if you were around most secondary schools (yes, including outstanding and grammar schools) at home time, you would not be happy about the behaviour.

Even the ‘good’ secondaries have to deal with anti-social behaviour outside school.

It can be difficult as a primary parent of a young child to see all those teenagers and imagine your child at the school. A lot of teenager behaviour is loud and overly boisterous, but doesn’t mean the school is rubbish.

No that’s not good - did you report it to the school? I don’t know anyone around here who has experienced that, none of my DCs have, so not good but don’t think it‘s a common occurrence.

Re the grades and top universities - it’s a joint 6th form which has a good reputation (and a ‘Good’ Ofsted rating) and gets students into good universities every year (including Oxford, Cambridge and Russell group) so I don’t think it’s correct to sat ‘few kids get into top Unis’.

www.sfh6.org/604/leavers-destinations

By A-level the school is mixed with Sydenham, and the results for SFH6 are pretty good as far as I can see. It's not a sixth form for those who want to be spoon-fed, but those who work hard are supported all the way and get into Russell Group and Oxbridge just fine.

I don't know so much about the GCSEs in general for the boys but the children I know who have gone there have all had excellent grades.

I'm not sure I've seen any worse behaviour from the Forest Hill boys than other local children to be honest. From what I know from friends the school goes on lots of trips, really pushes its gifted and talented children and gives free music lessons. These are all good things.

If you're worried though, try also looking at Hatcham in New Cross - music places and actually I think occasional places come up too for those in SE23 as well as Deptford Green (Ofsted Good) and with some really innovative teaching.

What exactly is your concern with FHB? Just the Ofsted? It’s a good school.

I definitely agree with this, my DD was at Sydenham and has done very well. Being in a diverse school has so many benefits that I think will really help her when she goes off to Uni and out to work. She says she’s very glad we didn’t move!

I have two at Sydenham Girls. They have many friends at FHB - all happy, all thriving. Most very very bright and expected to get excellent GCSE results. DD1 could not have been happier at Sydenham - she is pushed sufficiently, happy and has a fabulous group of friends. She is in a good place mentally for her GCSEs (year 11) which is more than can be said for many of her friends in more 'prestigious' local schools. I wish she could have had more trips, but Covid - and trips are a lot cheaper to replace than it would be to move house. She's likely to stay for Sixth Form at the mixed Sixth between the two schools though heaven knows her predictions give her many options.

DD2 (year 9) suffered from a Covid transition and there was one specific subject where things haven't gone so well. But it has been pulled back really impressively. She's also now very happy and being suitably academically stretched as well as having a very good time in almost all subjects. I don't think we could ask for more.

If we'd moved and expected anywhere else to be better I think we would have been disappointed. Friends with children at the boys school say the same. Good luck with your choice!

Re single sex education, I know it's hard to imagine them when they are older when your son is now so little and still at the age where he will play happily in a mixed group but it is different as they hit the pre-teen years. I used to think exactly like you and was sad that my son would have to leave his female friends behind but girls grow up so much more quickly than boys in the early teens that I don't think it's a real advantage socially being taught in mixed classes and there is a strong argument for single sex education. Whilst I absolutely do not subscribe to the "boys will be boys" mentality, boys and girls do learn differently and being in an environment which is tailored to them can be an advantage.

My oldest son is now at a mixed 6th form and has had no problem learning with girls or mixing with them socially.

And regarding your local school, have you actually been to see it? Ofsted reports only give a snap shot of a school and I'd also be wary of feedback from parents as it's rarely fully honest, for many reasons. It's really best to visit and form your own opinions.

so essentially your options are:

move to catchment area of a great state school (the houses will be more expensive though)

pay for private school (your DC will need to do tuition for entrance tests) - you may be able to get a bursary towards fees

move to catchment of a grammar school e.g. Kent (DC will need to do tuition for entrance tests)

go to a secondary school near to where you live and accept it’s not perfect.

I really suggest doing some visits before you start thinking about moving. It’s not just about the school itself, but also the journey, how they will meet up with friends, can they do activities, can they travel on their own, what are the post 16 options etc.

In person, a school or town can seem very different to the website.

And the outstanding schools are left un-inspected for years and years, if not decades!

What makes you say FHB is a rubbish school? My son went there and is now turning down a place at Bristol to read History for something more challenging as his A level results were so good! He has many friends going to a wide variety of Universities. The advantages of going to a very demographically and ethnically mixed true comprehensive school in London are myriad.

I didn't particularly want single sex schools but didn't have any choice in the matter. My dd went to Sydenham Girls - it was the perfect school for her, she could not have been happier.

I'm so glad I didn't go down the knee-jerk route and move house.

The current Ofsted framework is much stricter so a lot of outstanding schools who haven’t been inspected for a while are losing their outstanding status.

Currently about 1 in 5 schools are outstanding, Ofsted expect that to go down to 1 in 10.

So going forward it’s going to be much harder to find an ‘outstanding’ school.

And we moved from br3 to br2 for the schools.

@londongals that's ridiculous. There's bucket loads of state secondaries in London that are full of (if you excuse this phrase) naice middle class children.

Hayes is mixed and just waiting for its latest Ofsted.
Am thinking a BR2 house would be much cheaper than SE23.
Also Langley schools around here are good (both about to get new heads though) but single sex and grammar access but again single sex. Also have the New Eden Park and Harris, both mixed, but not hearing great things about them.

Huge generalisation there!! You can’t write off all London schools because of one school your friend worked in…

Anyway the facts are that ‘White British pupils eligible for free school meals (FSM) persistently underperform compared with peers in other ethnic groups, from early years through to higher education.’ (Education Committee).

My experience is that many families who have come to the UK from other countries often really want their children to do well and to have a better life than they have had. London schools are used to this, often they have EAL classes to help the children improve their language skills.
I’d rather my child was in a class with an EAL student than a badly behaved one.

Where was this?

I think there are some very good state options that are not grammar in London

Some may be as you say but no necessarily where op is considering