rubbish local secondary school choices - London - did you end up moving?

You can get a full scholarship, half scholarship or a G&T offer. Afaik all full scholarship offers tend to get a place offer (but might not be on offers day) and about half the half-scholarships. I don't think it gets down as far as G&T, so those tend to be via the lottery system.

Why on earth do Kingsdale make it so complicated? Seems over the top. Must be very frustrating for families who live nearby.

I would take any school in London over what we have in the north west. Our highest performing schools have 25% English and Maths at grade 5+. You are all so lucky to live in London and have what we would consider decent schools. They get so much more money pumped into them and have better teachers.
I honestly can’t understand why people in London complain so much. You don’t realise what you have.

Hi OP, there are some interesting demographic changes happening at the moment which may mean state secondary schools which your DS would be unlikely to gain a place at currently may be available to him in the future. In parallel, some common behaviour patterns such as moving out of inner London into the outer London boroughs or targeting grammars / top performing non-selective schools in the Home Counties may be less likely to be successful at gaining the desired place in the future. If you want to consider the independent sector, schools such as Dulwich, Colfe’s, Whitgift etc. may offer generous bursaries. Going slightly off-piste, you could also consider one of the many state day / boarding schools such as Cranbrook School, Co-Ed grammar in Kent and Holyport College in Windsor & Maidenhead.

They over-offer knowing that there's a lot who will go to private schools or other secondaries.

When DD sat the scholarship there were a couple of hundred applicants I reckoned. Ditto at places like Camden School for Girls and Hatcham New Cross Gate. (At Kingsdale you do get to do all parts of the test - so the MAT, the performance part and the aural tests. The other two, you had to sit the MAT first and only high scorers were invited back).

From what I can work out for KFS, for both music and sport, applicants are ranked by score. The top 15 or so are basically guaranteed a place on offers day. Then if someone goes elsewhere, that place goes to the next on the list and so on. If you don't get a place on offers day then you can get one via either the lottery place or because you are next on the scholarship list. If you get a lottery place but were eligible for a scholarship then you get the scholarship too but doesn't affect the scholarship list (if that makes sense).

You can get a full scholarship, half scholarship or a G&T offer. Afaik all full scholarship offers tend to get a place offer (but might not be on offers day) and about half the half-scholarships. I don't think it gets down as far as G&T, so those tend to be via the lottery system.

Prendergast Ladywell also on the up if you're in the honor oak side

It is a bit of a funny area for schools, but Sedgehill and Deptford Green take everyone currently, and Prendergast Vale has a wide area. I know they aren’t local. But I guess that must be where some people go?

Handy Lewisham school distance map: lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/education/schools/school-admission/applying-to-start-secondary-school/school-admission-distance-map

@080878tukh there must be a bit of a unbalance of schools for boys as a couple of the boys schools in the area have turned in co-ed but the 'sister' schools have stayed all girls.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow Charter is rather teeny tiny.
Thinking about the scholarships - they must offer more than is available at first because I know a child who was offered one but decided to go to a different school so her spot must have gone to someone on a waiting list.
I may be completely wrong about that.

Charter does seem to have a ridiculously small PAN

@OhCrumbsWhereNow the problem with the lottery system at Kingsdale is that it's the only state secondary in SE21 so while there are plenty of other schools in South London as the admissions are usually distance based if locals don't get in they aren't guaranteed a place in the next nearest school (ie somewhere like Charter) because they live to far away.

As far as I am aware, everyone who is awarded a full music or sports scholarship is pretty much certain to be offered a place by the start of term?

You can't say that there aren't other school options locally though. Masses of schools in South London.

Where we live, it's almost an hour to the nearest secondary school and that is in special measures and over 30 teachers left at the end of last year. Next closest is over an hour but with only one not awfully reliable way to get there. Hence we applied for every school with music aptitude places in London that DD could feasibly get to.

For me the major issue with Kingsdale is the lottery system.

We live close by, but I know so many local kids who, even when getting music or sports scholarships, just didn't get a place. I'd rather not put it down than risk disappointment!

@OhCrumbsWhereNow glad to hear your daughter is doing well at Kingsdale. I know lots of children there who mostly seem to be doing fine and are very happy.

Kingsdale parent whose child travels in from another county.

Reason for us was that it specialises heavily in DD's areas of interest and having looked at around 15 schools in Y5/6, it was the one that both DH and DD instantly said was the one they wanted, and one of only 2 that we all agreed we liked.

Been there nearly 3 years and can't think of anything to criticise - for my DD (clever but severe SEN, very single track focused, reasonably confident but never one of the "popular" girls, utterly disorganised and someone who tends to do the minimum possible in subjects she doesn't care about) it has been a success. They're caring, have managed to get to actively enjoy subjects she hated and academically she is doing better than even our wildest dreams, they're incredibly supportive of her ambitions and are not draconian on the discipline front but seem to have made her slightly more organised.

It won't suit every child and I think (if you actually do have real choice) then it's well worth visiting lots of schools with an open mind. There were ones we saw which looked perfect on paper and in person were awful. Kingsdale I went to see expecting to seriously dislike and came away with a very different impression (just ignore the HT's speech - enough to put anyone off the place).

FWIW, it can be a good idea to go and see schools on your own first and then compile a shortlist to take child to see. They can be very influenced by things that are of zero relevance (whether they liked what was on offer for lunch).

Also take other people's experiences with a pinch of salt. What suits their child, or their child hates may be completely different for yours.

We moved from a very central bit of zone 1 to Camden zone 2, just before DD started reception. I find moving house very stressful, so we targeted an area with excellent primary and secondary options, and we don't plan to move again until the DCs have finished secondary school (mine are both girls though, so specific school names probably aren't helpful to the OP). We wouldn't have wanted to leave inner London though, as we like the diversity, ease of walking to work, having everything on our doorstep, a car-free lifestyle etc.

For certain secondary schools, I think the reputation/quality of education has been high for decades (I grew up nearby and they were sought-after then) and the demographic is still similar (or if anything increasingly wealthier) so I'm not concerned that they would suddenly go downhill by the time DCs start at secondary. But if they do, private is also an option for us, and there are loads within easy travelling distance.

I think if we were in OP's position (with years to plan ahead) I'd visit as many schools as possible, and sell our home to live in a rental within spitting distance of the best comp, possibly affording it by choosing a place that was too small or a flat for the long term. Then I'd move out of the rental once the DC had started school, to an area that was still easy to travel to school but far enough to be cheaper so we could live in a house the right size for us. It would only work for comps with distance criteria though, so not grammars or lottery admissions.

Usually people start looking in Y4 or Y5 (without their kids) but I wouldn’t worry about taking up a ‘place’ - now Covid restrictions have lifted the schools are generally keen to have parents visit in person.

@A580Hojas I don't quite get the obsession with Kingsdale. I know several kids who go there. It's generally perfectly fine...but nothing amazing.
The ones I know that go there go because their parents put it on the list because it's walking distance. That's why they wanted their children to go there.
(I also know others that put it on their list because they live practically across the road from it not because they were so amazingly wowed by it and thanks to the lottery system didn't get in).
I see the coaches and the overflowing buses and crowds of Kingsdale kids at the railway station who travel from miles away and all I can think is "why?"
I don't understand it. I really don't. It's just a school...

School reputations tend to last for ages.

FHB is not a ‘failing’ school and I do believe the reputation is gradually changing.

Kingsdale is not the be all and end all either 🤷‍♀️

I know many kids and parents of kids at both and they are doing well. Parental unfluence and support is so important and mustn’t be under estimated IMO.

We discounted grammar as we didn’t want our DC’s doing huge commutes. They can both walk to Syd school/FHB which we felt was important.

You seem pretty set against FHB so looks like you’ll have to move or go for grammar with a back up at private.

Do you remember when all discussion about Kingsdale on Mumsnet resulted in a thread deletion! It was hilarious. They didn't like people trying to find out about the exam cheating scandal and the enormous staff turnover.

It's a nightmare so I sympathise! I've lived in two middle class areas of London with mostly single sex schools where all the parents of boys suddenly sell up when they hit year 4! Single sex in the state sector feels very dated and inappropriate.

I used to live in SE23 and moved to BR2. This was mainly for more space but secondary schools were also a consideration as my children with both at primary at the time. Many people move out to Bromley (or further) around year 4/5. Overall we're pleased with the move but the area has quite a different feel - more suburban, people drive a lot more, many feel they live in Kent not London - so I'd say you need to be up for the move more generally not just schools. We have a much bigger house and garden on a quiet road which is lovely. DD is at Langley Girls (very happy) and DS will go to the boys in due course along with many of his friends. I have literally never heard anything bad about Langley boys locally.

Having said that all our friends still in SE23 are happy with secondary schools. Our old neighbours' boy did very well at FHB. I'd agree take a look around the local schools and also think about the area you'd move to...

The comprehensives in Bromley are all very good.

Yes this!! Panic is the right word in year 5/6. It's such a personal choice. Based on your own personal experience at school, your kid, their personality, your finances, political leanings etc! I'm trying to just focus on what will work for our son, our lifestyle and family.