Talk me down re school choice

Thanks, I hadn't delved into this detail, my kids have a couple of years left at primary. But it's already weighing on my mind, in case we need to move.

@Schoolunsure2 i can really see why you're finding it a difficult choice. In your shoes I would take my child to see the schools, maybe more than once. And visit another time during a normal school day, to see it in action.

I really value my mums thoughts on this as she worked in secondary schools for many years, doing things like timetabling, running exams and compiling progress 8's. Her opinion is simply to go with your gut.

I'm starting to worry about mine too. I don't think my kids are stand out bright. They might be borderline for grammar and the school doesn't gear them up towards it.

1. Home town state school. Kids could walk or cycle. Its a big school so good facilities but has a poor reputation around pastoral care. I've heard tales of a lot of mucking about in classes. Only 52% get grade 5+ at gcse. Progress 8 is 0.12.

2. Neighbouring town state school. Bus or drive. Sounds a bit better for pastoral care. Less of a captive catchment, so school has to try harder to sell itself. Gcses 48%. Progress 8 is 0.2.

3. Grammar schools, there are 6 under an hour away, with a bus that trundles between them all. Gces more like 96% and progress 8's 0.6. However I know they're very pressured.

4. Private for 2 kids would be say £42k a year?! Some here are £10k per term. Others £7k.

I know it's sensible to just send them to the local school where they will be fine. But it will be so hard for them to get top grades there.

Why is this sensible? Sending bright, ambitious children to a school that will flatten their aspirations and let them coast because with minimal effort they will still do okay is hardly a wise move.

I don't agree with some PPs suggestions that private tutors can make up the shortfall. They can, sort of, but what they can't undo is spending day in, day out in an environment where your peers despise enthusiasm for learning. it is soul-destroying. I went to such a school, and so did a friend and we both feel how deeply it got to us. School isn't just about grades, it's about your approach to life and to learning.

Let your DC visit all local schools and see which ones they feel right in. We did that with DC and it was astonishing. They were bored at almost all school open days after the initial look round. They hated the local grammar and surprisingly so did we. But at one school they just lingered. They were the last to leave the open day on two consecutive years. We sent them to that school and they thrived.

Talk to the public school about bursaries, scholarships and help with paying fees. Acquaint yourselves and your DC with the kind of tests they do at the local grammar (NVR? VR? Essays? etc) and make sure they are comfortable and confident with these so if you do decide to go that route, it's not a stress.

If they're exceptionally bright it really wouldn't be hard to get top grades at the local school. The idea that only private or grammar school can meet their needs is ludicrous. Where it might matter is where your kids are more borderline.

Of all the things I wouldn't worry about 40mins travel to the grammar school. My boys have done that journey since primary at differing schools and they just take it in their stride.

In this area all of the kids are getting buses in different directions at 7.30 in the morning - no-one thinks anything of it. (We are in grammar country - so many different schools). They've all gone by 7.50am.

People always bring out the "bright and driven" line on mumsnet, but I think they underestimate the impact of peer group on children. Few children will stay "driven" until Y11 if their peer group aren't the same. Something like tutoring can become a real battle if DC aren't on board.

DC see themselves as doing "fine" because they are doing better than their peers. But they may still not be achieving their true potential.

Some schools (even with relatively low attainment) can achieve this, but not all. If only 30% of DC are getting 5s, then top sets may contain a wide spread of ability, and students may not be taught/pushed at the very top of this.

I'd be interested to know the progress 8 scores for the schools as well. There is a difference between a school with low attainment but great progress, and low attainment and low progress.

Is the 40mins to grammar door to door, or is there a walk to the bus stop included ?

You really need to visit the schools and see what is the best fit for each child.

Is the grammar really pressured, or are you assuming? Regardless, the bullying sounds worrying.

My daughter is at a grammar school and it seems less pressured than the comp some of her friends have gone to. They get less homework and don't get detentions for silly misdemeanors all the time.

But also, if your children are bright and driven, they should do well anywhere. My kids are bright not driven unfortunately.

I’ve worked in a lot of secondary schools in inner city Birmingham where attainment is often low. There are still children who get 9 x grade 9s because they’re motivated, competitive and want to succeed.

A few thoughts:

1. I agree with your concerns about results in the local school.

2. 40 minutes isn't that far for children to travel at secondary age. It'll feel like a lot right now, as your eldest is only in Y5, but by the time she is 16, it would feel like nothing. I would be more wary if it was a "one bus a day" sort of deal which would limit extracurriculars.

3. In terms of the school where you are concerned about bullying, what sources do you have for this? Is there a recent ofsted? Have you spoken to a lot of parents? I think at any school, one child can have a really bad experience, unfortunately, and especially with social media etc, there can be a limit to what the school can do. Equally some schools are really successful at changing historical reputations.

In terms of private school, you say it would be a stretch. Have you investigated bursaries etc? Have you really investigated the private schools? They can have bullying problems, and/or be high pressure too.

Could you afford a 5-10% yearly fees rise (probably as a minimum at the moment)? Realistically, with potentially increasing energy and staffing costs, these fees will go up...

My concern with private is that you'd be sending two at the time when your elder daughter would be starting to study for GCSEs- which would be a really rubbish time for her to have to move. If it really became too much of a stretch, you might be looking at having to withdraw her in Y10 or Y11, which would not be ideal at all.

I would personally try for the grammar, with the second state school in mind as a back up. If either school didn't work out, depending on over subscription etc, you could consider a move to one of the other schools.

I wouldn't go for private unless you could comfortably afford it- especially given Labour have suggested that they would remove charitable status for private schools. This would increase fees etc, and might impact the provision of bursaries etc.

If there's a chance in a few years time that you'll regret not stretching yourself to take the private option and thinking "if only..." then you should reconsider that. It was really tough when we did it but the best thing we ever did and it gave our kids an amazing start. We did have to skip some holidays and car upgrades but was totally worth it

Out of what you've said I'd go for the school a short bus ride away. It has good results, is still fairly local and they are likely to have a few local friends.

If bullying is the main negative, then that can happen anywhere, even in grammars/private/comps.

I'd also prepare for the grammar school because why not. Good to have options.

I would probably rule out the top public school if it really will be a stretch financially and it's far away by car. There might likely be private school buses running, but they would take longer due to making stops and also there's the walk to and from the school bus stop itself to factor in.

If you’ve got a grammar in the area that will skim off a lot of the really able kids, which might be why the results at the comp are lower than you’d like.

investigate the bullying at second school - why does it have the rep? What are its processes? Is it an outdated rep? What do current students and parents say? Amy mention of it in Ofsted? If you can be reassured, this could be the best option, but otherwise go for your local school. You can supplement with tutors, supra curricular if needed.

40 mins twice a day is too long a commute imo, especially in a grammar where it’s potentially stressful in the day and also more likely to have substantial homework amounts. Plus what if there’s traffic, delays, diversions…it wouldn’t take much to bump it up to 2 hours a day travel which isn’t fair on kids and will limit their options for socialising, extra curriculars, volunteering and jobs later on.