Independent secondary school - grotty and not up to date. AIBU?

I have viewed lots of schools - state and indie - and it’s really common to have sheets of paper with the tours so that no space gets too crowded.

I wouldn’t be put off by a school that was slightly scruffy, dds primary was a bit scruffy and I was looking at some photos of a school play recently and the school hall’s paint was peeling and it looked awful, but a year later they decorated and put in a new floor. It was preferable to the school I went to with a new prep block that had pristine white walls and no art anywhere other than styalised black and white photos. That school felt big and soulless. As long as the school has good numbers of children and has healthy reserves (and a nice ethos / results / culture) then the condition wasn’t that important to me.

As others have said, it is worth looking at the financial health of the school overall. If the school buildings were actually not clean, that would also really bother me.

In terms of labs, I would say that replacing labs is a really big commitment, not just financially, but in terms of time as well- it's often not a job that can be completed in a 6 or 8 week summer break, because it's things like redoing the gas, sorting out the plumbing, installing electrics etc, and this all takes time. So often it's something schools will only do when labs are actually becoming non-functional, rather than because they look a little bit dated.

You can have excellent equipment and facilities in a lab that doesn't look especially modern.

If the equipment itself looks dated, that is a different concern, and can lead to a less than optimal experience.

If you pay that much money, you should be happy with the whole package. If you have 1 school that has good teaching and good facilities vs a school that has good teaching but unkempt facilities at the same price, I wouldn't want my dc to go to the latter as it would teach them bad financial management and ingrained low expectations. I personally think a lot of what us wrong with the UK (NHS, education etc) is due with people having low expectations and accepting things to be unkempt, shoddy etc as long are people are 'nice' and things are 'inclusive', and people are suspicious of 'shiny'. It's a very self defeating Luddite mentality.

Just send them to a state school.

You’re paying for the facilities, and for your DC to be in a cohort with the ‘right’ sort of peers. Plenty of state schools have superb teachers who would knock spots off their counterparts in the independent sector but lack smaller classes and access to resources. If one of these factors is missing I fail to see the value in paying the fees.

I think facilities are a red herring, it is about the teaching, and the getting the best most inspirational staff and quality of work, look at the kids books and you'll get a better idea.

Hmm we looked round Sutton too, maybe I am getting confused! They are all starting to merge into one…

@minipie not WHS. our DD is Sutton high

DD is at WHS- most of it is quite new now- they've been building for years! I think to be fair it was probably down to crowd management- it's not a big site and would be chaos if everyone could just wander where they wanted to! They are given no 'prep' when they tour in terms of answers to give etc.
Tours are a bit of a nightmare- I ended up seeing most schools at least 3 times as depended so much on who took you round ( or which other parents were in your group..)

Was it In the South?

This was at WHS… I’m sure we didn’t see the whole school as we saw almost nowhere that wasn’t brand new! But yes it could be about crowd management, maybe I’m being too cynical!

@minipie I think the laminated sheets is my daughter’s school - she’s a guide and we also saw the laminated sheets last year when we visited. I just asked her and she said the tour goes to every building but they have routes on the sheet to stop everyone being in the same place at the same time - so it just gives the order to go everywhere - that might not be about avoiding spaces, just to organise it a bit!

You do need to be careful when comparing schools based on open days though.

We went to two similar schools recently. On one open day we were given a pre set tour - all the guides had been given a (laminated!) route to follow, very clearly focusing on the recently built parts of the school. We didn’t see any of the old bits. On another we were asked “what would you like to see” and nothing was off limits. Including eg the fairly elderly science labs.

Obviously, the first school has old and tatty bits, but we deliberately weren’t shown them. I’m not sure that’s a great message about the school tbh.

Sounds very similar if not the exact same! (What city are you in, if you don’t mind me asking?) The school we saw is super pushy too, but there didn’t seem to be much of an atmosphere of happy kids and a school proud of their work — instead, small bare classrooms and slightly jittery-looking girls showing people around. The teachers didn’t seem particularly good at connecting with the kids either.

Similarly to you, our DD is very bright but I would prefer her to have a happy school experience in a less academically pushy environment, than be unhappy in a school which hothouses for superlative results. Also the sixth form girl who gave a speech to parents was utterly terrifying! DD described her as “like Ethel Hallow from The Worst Witch” 😂

My super selective private secondary school had some dilapidated parts. They spent most of the money on teachers salaries, a new theatre, educational trips and regularly updating textbooks which we didn't need to buy ourselves. It was a truly excellent school with brilliant results.

Peeling paintwork and wooden desks don't affect teaching/learning.

I think a bit of evidence of wear and tear is a good thing - I would much rather the school spent money on excellent staff and teaching rather than on buildings. I find all the talk of amazing new buildings makes me think more about the disruption of building work and whether it’s worth it, rather than about how great they’ll be for my DC.

I do think that some facilities matter - for a keen swimmer its clearly a bonus to have a school pool, similarly with a keen musician and making sure there are enough performance and practice spaces. But in general, a bit of paintwork that needs touching up or a slightly grotty area don’t put me off at all.

I wonder if it’s the same one we also visited this weekend? 😂 In our case we couldn’t quite see where the money was going - the facilities were no better than an average state secondary, and in some cases worse. There also wasn’t much evidence of fantastic teaching, either (both DP and I work in the education sector and are very attuned to this). There was an atmosphere of nervy anxiety that really put both us and DD off - the kids were unsmiling and it was all a bit chaotic.

Given that this school advertises itself as extremely selective and very academic, it made me think they get those results via a culture of heavy selection and drilling, not inspirational teaching. And yes, I think if you’re paying nearly 20k a year you want to see a bit of care in the buildings - not stained carpets, mouldy visitors’ loos and manky astroturf!

I wouldn't focus overly on the buildings/grounds - as long as there aren't parts that are completely rundown (a bit old and tired is not the same) then focus on results, the teachers, the kids - those things make the real difference.

My DS and DD are at two different schools both charging those fees. In both there has been recent developments and money clearly invested in the buildings - mostly communal areas. However, both also have ‘fusty’ areas as they are Victorian buildings and it’s hard to maintain the upkeep I guess - they have nice areas and not so nice areas - mainly in old original buildings, but both very happy schools with happy kids and great opportunities. If you ask about the specific school you saw, someone will definitely know it and be able to advise.

Maybe it's my daughter's school you visited on the recent open day 😂

She was at a different private secondary school previously - one with amazing grounds and new facilities but she didn't like the school and was discussing with other kids from the school how their school's glossy facade is so deceiving. She changed to a school with a more tired exterior and less impressive grounds, but the kids absolutely love their school. The school spends money on providing a very broad curriculum, great food in the cafeteria, nice teachers and a huge variety of clubs and school trips. Not all that glitters and all that...

Plus, you also need to think about whether the great facilities that the school offers will actually benefit your child. My daughter's previous school was I believe the no.1 school for football and had incredible fields, but my daughter doesn't play football and the sport she does to a high level she does outside of school.

Concerns about the school's viability and finances are absolutely valid. But on the flip side, when you go to an open day, you are not seeing a school in action. In the absence of lessons and teachers and children going about their daily routine, it is easy to focus on what you can see - the buildings - and not on the other aspects of the school that would make it a good fit for your child. The things that seem to be making the difference to my DD are pace, an innovative curriculum, really engaging teaching and a reasonable peer group. Those are harder to see at an open day.

I went to a private school. It was a common gripe that loads of money got spent on the "visible" areas of the school - the bits that were shown to prospective parents and that money was not spent in other areas (ones that would directly benefit students at the school).

So looking dilapidated might be a positive :)

If it looks dilapidated the main concern is that it'll go bankrupt while your child is in an exam or immediately pre exam year, and close. I'd follow the advice above and check out the finances.