SW London Girls' Private & Grammar - applying for year 7 in 2023

@Dallasdays I'm inclined to agree. At the end of the day they'll offer to those who've performed well and who are likely to accept the offer. I also think they're arranging these group session interviews in a bid to weed out those who don't behave well.

State schools don't have the capacity to do this sort of thing. Moreover, I don't think they would do it because it wouldn't be considered fair - the same reason that state schools are not allowed to interview.

I am not too worried about it as I very much doubt an independent secondary will take any notice of these appeals. They may give the veneer of listening so as to maintain good relations with the prep.

@LondonMum20222 it would be nice if the state school heads could do this! But if any are like my dd then they just don’t know anything about the 11+! I was seriously shocked. Our head was not able to give any advice or tell me anything about the 11+ I am not from the UK so I was hoping for a little guidance. But nope. I had to research and figure everything myself. I just hope the head is able to write a reference letter…..

I also hope that the private secondary schools take this into account, that perhaps some state school heads aren’t experts on what to write or the 11+ process.

The head wasn’t even able to give much guidance on what schools to aim for based on ability. She just gave a wide range from Godolphin to Queens Gate. I am really nervous, as we just don’t know. My dd is bright, exceeding in math, English and writing, but given state schools are behind British private schools, I have no idea her level compared to others. So we applied to a range and hoping for the best.

It has nothing to with lack of capability. State schools don’t prep their children for selective education be that state or private schools (unless maybe in Kent etc).

But why not? If a state school primary head has a bright pupil with extenuating circumstances, or who they think maybe didn't perform their best on the day, what is stopping them phoning up Admissions and having that conversation? This idea that state school heads - particularly in London - are incapable of navigating anything around the 11+ system, or advocating for their pupils, is frankly insulting to state school teachers.

Apart from the fact that the state school heads will not be phoning up schools to advocate for their pupils on waitlists. So any advocacy is unfair.

Our Head told us that quite a few secondaries don't even read the references and just purely go on the exam results / interview.

Ah great thanks

Gcse and A level results. A-levels are given double weight. On the times website you can separate them by strictly gcse or a-levels

@prag82 thanks for this. But how do they rank them?!!

@QuiteAJourney yes I think you're right re admissions.

@PreplexJ As far as I am aware, it is depends on the school but state background is either neutral or positive when looking at exam results. In some of the visits, when asked, they said that they were neutral but in others they were quite clear that they were keen to increase representation and referred to aiming for equal representation.

@QuiteAJourney I know sibling is definitely ve+ how about state school? Is it ve+/ve-? Or is it different per school?

Agreed. I think all they really care about is getting the kids who will get the best exam results.

I think exam performance is the key driver for progressing through admissions progress, with other factors playing a marginal role (depending on the school and, of course, exam results). Those other factors can range: extra-curricular prowess, CAT scores, KS results / predictions, male:female ratios, percentages from state schools, even siblings at the school. I doubt any of these factors can compensate for a significantly lower test result. But the schools have leeway to factor them somewhat as private entities: they can choose their own selection criteria and they all openly refer to school reports / references in their Comms (without being specific about the form it will take) and admissions policies.

As to whether fair or not, I always think that, like beauty, fairness is in the eye of the beholder.

At the end of the day it will be about the exam results on the day. A lot of the schools talk about ranking the children after the exam. I imagine this isn't so easy with English but more straightforward with the maths hence the papers are generally difficult. Gives them an opportunity to see who is good at maths and who excels.

I would agree that they likely form part of the reference for the early stages and then may be used by prep school heads to advocate for children on waiting lists. Not sure that it's unfair as such. If cats were low then the child worked really hard for the exam then they could work the other way if on a waiting list.

We're in a state primary too and I know that the only results given to the schools are KS1 results and predicted KS2 results.

I just think the CATs are a useful guide for parents later on given the correlation to GCSE results five years later. Other than that, I have no idea how these schools actually use the results.

We are at a state primary and I had never heard of Cats before reading about them on Mumsnet.

It would seem totally unfair for them to play any part, and for prep headteachers to be able to call up and advocate for their pupils using them. I would hope that the process is fair and that this sort of thing doesn't take place!

Yes, this is what we've been told - that they're only really considered by schools in borderline cases. Also, that if a candidate totally tanks on the day, and the Head wants to argue their case (eg for a second round or interview spot) then previous year CATS might then be used by way of tangible proof that the child just had a really bad day but is usually a strong performer.

As you say, @QuiteAJourney, state schools will have their own metrics which might serve a similar purpose. Also, I think some state primaries do do CATS anyway.

i agree with @Daydreamscometrue , they are part of the reference provided by schools, if they have them. Other schools may use other metrics.

@Geville I imagine they're just sent with the reference as additional information to include. Likewise a state school will send along KS1 results which is likely all they'll have. The CAT scores probably come in useful if a candidate is borderline.