SW London Girls' Private & Grammar - applying for year 7 in 2023

Thanks, LondonMum! We tried blitzing the spatial stuff, but without much value-added - chiefly, I suspect, as I’m crap at it myself so was of limited value in terms of offering tips’n’tricks. ISEB is almost upon us, so it’s a case of fingers crossed now, I think.

Thank you all. Very interesting but also daunting! Results for us are not consistent, so o can be optimistic or pessimistic 😂 Well, this time next year they'll all be in a school anyway!!

Have a look at the responses on this thread about CAT scores and school offers - it's all very sensible as regards taking "average" entrance profiles with a pinch of salt!
www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4648080-cat-scores-for-spgs?page=1

Someone told me c.125 is an average CAT score for Hampton (remember some students will be higher than that, some a fair bit lower - there's a brilliant thread on Mumsnet about CAT scores / SPGS which has some great reasoning about the long tail at some schools - worth reading if you haven't already). I don't know about KGS I'm afraid but I'd imagine a similar ballpark.
130+ average tends to be only SPGS / St Paul's Boys / Westminster and the top grammars.

@secondaryquandries Difficult to say as exams are really different. I think that comparison is easier when format is like ISEB but when there are elements like creative writing, etc, I think it is not a straight forward translation. The schools you are mentioning are quite in demand so I would guess, if I had to venture, that in the 130 region or close by... (of course, all depends also on performance on the day)

Thank you. I have had a look at the scores. Any idea what you need to be aiming for for KGS, Hampton etc?

You are absolutely right - just had a look at the report again - it seems to be verbal (words), numerical (thinking with numbers) and non-verbal (shapes and space).

Lots of state schools do do CATs so it's pot luck really whether any given school does or not. But Atom (plus 8 points) should still give you a good indicator.

That's still a great average though, and the highest mark possible in the spread. When is your ISEB? There are plenty of Spatial practice books on the market if you have time just to blitz through a few papers!

Atom usually say add 8 points to their scores to get the equivalent CAT score.

I don't think there is English on CATs. Just VR, NVR, Quantitative (maths) and Spatial. Schools often do different English tests too (usually comp and spelling - eg NGRT and NGRS) but CATs are just those four categories.

Sorry that should read that non verbal reasoning is his weakest

Ah yes. My ds is state so no cats. His verbal reasoning sas is also his weakest.

You have to ask the school, but not all schools do CAT testing. I think the Atom ones come in slightly lower than CATs - you have to add ?6 to make them equivalent IF I am remembering correctly.

@secondaryquandries , my DD's primary indie provides them on a yearly basis (as part of school report). On the SAS ones on Atom, I think that you need to be careful, as SAS on Atom are supposed to be quite different to CAT - if I think that I saw a document a while back where the discrepancy was some 6-9 points, with the SAS in Atom being lower than the CAT scores).

Where do you guys all get these CAT scores from? I have no idea. Though my son does use atom and get the SASones there.

Spatial question types seem harder for ISEB than CAT too.

CAT averaged at 128, with range 118-141. Yes, spatial is indeed the problem - just our luck ISEB have ramped it up…!

Interesting on the CAT scores - I think that we have only 4 categories: Maths, English, VR and NVR (so I assume spatial and other NVR is all grouped together), but worth checking whether there is a difference in performance between both.
If CAT scores are 'solid' worth asking your current school if they can figure in the cover letter (assuming that they are not in the yearly report and/or the prospective school does not ask for it).

@readingcat Do you have CAT score results for your DD? Is there a disparity between spatial and NVR?
I've heard the same as you - that some schools are perfectly happy with spiky profiles, esp if one of them is very high, whereas others just look at the average across the board (the latter seems silly to me - does a school really not want a genius mathematician if their English comprehension currently isn't currently quite up to scratch?!)

Thanks, both, that’s helpful. We are dealing with a spiky profile: excellent VR & English, Maths just good enough, but NVR average or below average. My understanding is that some ISEB schools will accept skewed results, especially if there is excellence in one skills set (and assuming the candidate has performed well in the creative writing, group task etc.), but that others require a strong performance across the board or lay significant emphasis on NVR. Would be interested in others’ thoughts on this.

Yes, our head told us exactly this re both ISEB and Consortium - that every school will interpret the results of the exam differently (and ditto weight the interviews / school references differently too). The only school I know that's transparent is Tiffin Girls who say second stage exam is 60% English and 40% Maths (the assumption is that's how they weight the results, but who knows!)

@readingcat my understanding is that the schools are given the data for each section and then it is up to the school how they factor them, also together with any other tests (eg creative writing), interviews and additional information (eg school reports).

Can anyone advise about whether ISEB timings reflect the weighting each subject is given? VR & NVR weigh in at 15 and 10 min less than English & Maths - are results in the latter subject areas of greater significance?

🙏thanks for clarifying. Does anyone have a DD at LU who can share their thoughts? ta