Page 2 | 11 year old DS, severe separation anxiety and secondary school struggles - suggestions for alternative London schools?

usernamebore · 2022-09-20T10:57:31+00:00

Hi DS is 11 and just started secondary at a relatively kind and supportive London co-ed private. Unfortunately he has developed acute separation anxiety and every day for the last two weeks has been brutal. He has had multiple panic attacks in the morning, including in school. This morning he was screaming in fear, sobbing, begging me not to leave, begging me to get him help as he was so scared, hyperventilating etc. When I tried to leave he was so terrified he pushed past the teacher and was basically fighting to get to me and grabbing on to my work bag with white knuckles. He seems terrified of being alone in the school without us. It seems he had a propensity for this, but Covid and the recent death of his grandfather (they were very close) has pushed him over the edge. Pre-Covid he loved having playdates with friends from primary school, but when the restrictions lifted he just refused to have them. I wonder if being told to stay at home with us to keep safe from Covid just exacerbated this sense that he needs to be with us. I have managed to get him in school every day for the last two weeks, and he has taken part in almost all of the lessons, but it is brutal for him and for us. The school are being helpful, and he has an appointment with the counsellor. We are also looking to try and get him seen by someone privately to help. I worry about the fact that all his peers have obviously seen some of this, and dont want him to start getting bullied or ostracized for being the weird crying kid. It is also hard not to think it is annoying for his teachers.... But part of me wonders if a big, competitive school like this is just not going to work for him. If it gets to that stage, does anyone have any suggestions for smaller london schools with really good SEN provision, or that might otherwise be better able to support him and us with this? Anyone had any experience with separation anxiety issues like this and have any advice, or know of a school which might be better for him? Dealing with getting him in every morning, and then going off and doing a full days work is just killing me and I worry a lot about his long term mental health.

Clymene · 22/07/2023 23:56

That's very grown up and magnanimous of you @usernamebore. For me/my child having a diagnosis hasn't changed the person he is but it acts as a useful shorthand to helping others understand the difficulties he may have.

I hope his school is able to provide the scaffolding he needs as he grows up.

Schoolschoice · 22/07/2023 23:27

Thats a great update to read OP and wishing you all very well for the future

Original poster

usernamebore · 22/07/2023 13:25

Just wanted to stop by and update things, not least because I think it is important and useful to acknowledge when we are wrong.

So long story short, while things got a lot better over the year, and he did amazingly academically, it became more and more clear there were sensory issues for him, as well as problems with changes to routine and interacting with his peers, that suggested to us, the school, and his therapist, that he might be autistic. We did a full NICE-guideline ASD assessment (private as obviously the wait for NHS was insane - so we are now bankrupt 😂) and got the result this week that he is.

In a way it is a relief as it explains what has been happening, and why the CBT and exposure therapy was not working in the way it should. We are not planning to move schools just yet, as we are hoping that we can work with them, and Ed Psyc and the SENCO etc to get supports in place which mean he can stay. He loves his teachers, is making friends etc, and we think a move might make things worse. But we are keeping things under advisement.

so I am now ordering books left right and center to learn about ASD, we are looking into what is there in the Borough etc and are hopefully now all moving forward in the right direction.

wish us luck, and thanks to all of you for your help and support.

OP posts:

Zib · 27/01/2023 17:23

Hurrah for the steady improvement, and long may the ups be a bit bigger than the downs.

Original poster

usernamebore · 27/01/2023 13:31

He does have people he calls “friends”, but these are from his old school. He just says he does not know these new kids well enough yet

OP posts:

Lougle · 27/01/2023 12:59

My DD, who is autistic, refuses to consider anyone more than an 'acquaintance'.

LoveMyADHD · 27/01/2023 10:15

usernamebore · 27/01/2023 09:20

@Zib Thank you - still steadily improving, though with that classic "saw-tooth" up and down recovery. He volunteered to be one of the 4 kids representing his form in the inter-form literature quiz, and ended up winning the first round, which was a really good sign of his progress. It was a high-pressure, fingers on the buzzers lunchtime event, so were really proud of him for doing it! We are back to dropping off at the gate (just!) and he is definitely interacting more with his peers (though he still refuses to designate anyone more than "acquaintance +" 😂

Wow!! Amazing improvement! Bet it does wonders for his confidence …

massive well done!

in terms of autism comments …. Every time a kid is facing a challenge, he’s called autistic, no comment! 😉

bagelbagelbagel · 27/01/2023 10:11

I would say tread carefully because if you have a child with a lot of markers for autism, and it seems very likely from what you say here OP, if you choose to treat them symptomatically, without diagnosis, you risk kicking the issue further down the road at a more crucial time eg GCSES, A Levels, Uni.

Just something to have your eye on, but while you're at the flinging everything at it stage I would literally fling everything, including a multi disciplinary assessment for ASD.

Original poster

usernamebore · 27/01/2023 09:33

@Revengeofthepangolins thanks, and I tend to agree. At this stage I dont think getting a diagnosis, even if that would be the outcome of an assessment (which I doubt), would change anything about what we are doing on the day to day level. We are seeing real and concrete improvement with the approaches we are taking and, while I think anxiety is something he is going to struggle with for a long time in different ways, I know he can work through it with our support and the support of the school and his psychiatrist. There are going to be bumps and setbacks, but that is how these things work.

OP posts:

Original poster

usernamebore · 27/01/2023 09:20

@Zib Thank you - still steadily improving, though with that classic "saw-tooth" up and down recovery. He volunteered to be one of the 4 kids representing his form in the inter-form literature quiz, and ended up winning the first round, which was a really good sign of his progress. It was a high-pressure, fingers on the buzzers lunchtime event, so were really proud of him for doing it! We are back to dropping off at the gate (just!) and he is definitely interacting more with his peers (though he still refuses to designate anyone more than "acquaintance +" 😂

OP posts:

Revengeofthepangolins · 26/01/2023 22:01

Tbh think some of this autism chat is a bit of a culdesac. I know the general narrative is that once a diagnosis is received huge relief is felt and the world changes, but I don't really feel that way.

My son has an asd diagnosis, but in itself it doesn't really do much to help with day to day life. He still needs to get on with stuff and the label doesn't change that.

Zib · 26/01/2023 20:12

I hope your lad is doing okay, OP. He's lucky to have such steadfast support from you.

LoveMyADHD · 12/01/2023 20:57

@usernamebore you’re an awesome mum!!

i ll message you privately for the psychologist’s name if that’s ok !

well done for amazing news!

RavenclawsPrincess · 12/01/2023 18:16

mollynolly · 12/01/2023 13:38

Dunno why it didn't reg the name change but I was jamoncumpets and changed because I've given up the jam on 😂

Show quote history

I’d read your previous name as “jamon” like Spanish ham, and I was like oooh those are fancy crumpets! Now I realise you meant jam on! 😂

mollynolly · 12/01/2023 16:14

Good swivel, OP. I'm happy, as it will benefit your son greatly.

He might get used to that school. Odds aren't in favour though.

And the reason autism should be explored BEFORE most other options is that certain psychiatric treatments aren't suitable for autistic people. You risk traumatising them. So you need to know what type of brain you're working with before you make the plan of action.

You've got it a bit arse about face, and are risking what I said above.

Original poster

usernamebore · 12/01/2023 16:09

@mollynolly Hopefully I can resolve this. I dont disagree in the slightest that there are many things going on with him which could suggest autism. Indeed, that is why I first started thinking about it (my reference to being "concerned" btw was nothing to do with any views on autism, but from the fact that obviously when we first started secondary school and had this anxiety, I was hoping it was a short term blip due to all the factors which had being going on in his life, and that he was not going to have longer term mental health challenges to cope with. I was "concerned" there was something bigger going on (which their obviously is) because myself, my mother and many others in my family have struggled with anxiety and depression all our lives (indeed my uncle committed suicide) and I as hoping he would have an easier time). I have raised the issue of autism a number of times with his psychologist (who has a lot of experience with autistic kids) and she is aware of all the sorts of points I set out previously and you quoted. She, and the other professional we work with, are adamant they see no suggestion of that, and they have carried out a detailed assessment with him over a number of sessions and come back with their views on what is going on.

Nevertheless, the possibility of autism remains firmly on my radar, and is something we intend to keep reflecting on as we go forward. Fundamentally, at this stage, we are doing a lot of work with him which I dont think would differ much even if we had a diagnosis (which would take months to get in any event) and he has repeatedly told us how helpful he is finding the work he is doing with the therapist. At present what we are doing seems to be working, though it is necessarily a long process with blips and bumps in the road, but should things not be improving in the next few months, obviously we will need to reevaluate, and autism is not something which has been ruled out.

OP posts:

mollynolly · 12/01/2023 13:38

mollynolly · 12/01/2023 13:36

Apparently being able to communicate your emotions means you're neurotypical, @RavenclawsPrincess. OP says it so often it's almost like a mantra. Except that particular skill is something plenty of autistic people have, including myself.

As I said down-thread. It'll come out in the wash eventually. Like you I'm an expert in that area and I've seen plenty of middle class parents pay thousands to try and avoid 'labelling' their child. Then, a bit later, often around GCSEs, the crisis occurs. The interventions. The self abuse. The child asking 'Why?' 'Why am I like this?' 'Why is this so hard for me?' when they could have had the answer to that question years ago. Happens again at A Level. University. Work. Over and over until the child (now an adult) finally, hopefully, twigs that they're autistic.

This is a neurodiverse child being discussed in this thread, that list of traits I posted are all the OPs own words. Take that list to an expert in that field (me, hello) and that's more than enough to refer to diagnose. It's practically a klaxon screaming 'AUTISM'. Take that list to an assessment team, discuss the difficulties outlined here, input from school and it'd be cut and dried within two hours

Anxiety comes from somewhere, OP. You aren't born with anxiety. You can, however, be born neurodiverse. Grief complicates it, which is what you're seeing at the moment. Transitions aggravate it the most, which again, is what you're seeing here. But what you describe is classic autistic anxiety. Textbook. It's the exact anxiety that got me diagnosed, and thousands upon thousands of other people. And yes I am absolutely autistic. And it's not 'mild'.

Dunno why it didn't reg the name change but I was jamoncumpets and changed because I've given up the jam on 😂

mollynolly · 12/01/2023 13:36

Apparently being able to communicate your emotions means you're neurotypical, @RavenclawsPrincess. OP says it so often it's almost like a mantra. Except that particular skill is something plenty of autistic people have, including myself.

As I said down-thread. It'll come out in the wash eventually. Like you I'm an expert in that area and I've seen plenty of middle class parents pay thousands to try and avoid 'labelling' their child. Then, a bit later, often around GCSEs, the crisis occurs. The interventions. The self abuse. The child asking 'Why?' 'Why am I like this?' 'Why is this so hard for me?' when they could have had the answer to that question years ago. Happens again at A Level. University. Work. Over and over until the child (now an adult) finally, hopefully, twigs that they're autistic.

This is a neurodiverse child being discussed in this thread, that list of traits I posted are all the OPs own words. Take that list to an expert in that field (me, hello) and that's more than enough to refer to diagnose. It's practically a klaxon screaming 'AUTISM'. Take that list to an assessment team, discuss the difficulties outlined here, input from school and it'd be cut and dried within two hours

Anxiety comes from somewhere, OP. You aren't born with anxiety. You can, however, be born neurodiverse. Grief complicates it, which is what you're seeing at the moment. Transitions aggravate it the most, which again, is what you're seeing here. But what you describe is classic autistic anxiety. Textbook. It's the exact anxiety that got me diagnosed, and thousands upon thousands of other people. And yes I am absolutely autistic. And it's not 'mild'.

RavenclawsPrincess · 12/01/2023 12:16

OP, I don’t think anyone is trying to armchair diagnose your child. For my own part, I am simply saying as a professional who works in this area and an autistic person, that from your description your child absolutely does have symptoms and behaviours consistent with autism. Nobody can know for sure - even the psychologist he’s currently seeing - unless he’s had a full and proper neurodevelopmental assessment to rule it in or out with more certainty. Which you seem not open to at all, because from your posts it’s very much coming across that you’d rather he has any psychiatric label but autism.

Original poster

usernamebore · 12/01/2023 11:44

@Aleaiactaest thanks - yes, we are extremely privileged to be able to afford to send him to the school and (while waving goodbye to our savings) pay for the private therapy etc. I know how hard and unhelpful the lengthy CAMHS process can be, and the decades of underspending in, and undermining of, the state sector have made it virtually impossible for most schools to give kids the support they really need (though I know how many teachers and staff in those state schools go above and beyond to try and do so). The rapidly escalating mental health crisis among children is frankly terrifying.

OP posts:

Aleaiactaest · 12/01/2023 11:24

@usernamebore - that sounds great. It really sounds like he is getting great support at school from your private school. They will know that a child needs to be happy first and they will have the staffing and resources to provide that.

The reason we sought an assessment is because our DC was struggling in the state system and miserable with no extra support or challenge. Diagnosis of autism might have meant some extra support/quiet spaces and extra time/adjustments in exams. I still have to make it a point sometimes to explain to certain teachers that he is underperforming when not challenged. The good ones always listen and are then proud of him when he really flies and amazes them.

@CurrerEllisActon - the dyslexia without the right support can be so hard. Yes start your own thread and maybe ask what kind of support dyslexic DC are getting in some of the supportive private schools? Tinted glasses, adapted screens etc/hearing stuff instead of just reading, extra support groups, lunch time catch up classes etc., being able to email the teacher etc etc. The worst part for a child can be that they are actually incredibly smart but it just takes a longer time to process the information in the first place so they are just processing slower at the outset.

Original poster

usernamebore · 12/01/2023 11:11

@tpmumtobe and @Aleaiactaest - many thanks - that is very helpful to hear. We are lucky because he is very emotionally intelligent and can communicate how he is feeling very clearly, which is really helpful. Apparently yesterday he told each of his teachers at the start of the lesson that he was struggling and feeling a bit overwhelmed and anxious so he might need to leave the class, which we were very proud of him for doing. We are very lucky he is in such a great, supportive school (and we are so glad we chose that one instead of his offer from one higher up the league tables, but of which I hear some not so great stories!). The head of year phoned me at about 7pm last night just to see how we were all doing, and to say how fond they all were of him and how much they wanted to help him feel more secure. Having been a teacher myself in the past, I know how busy she must be, so that was really above and beyond.

OP posts:

CurrerEllisActon · 12/01/2023 11:09

Maybe I need to start my own thread I don’t want to distract from OP’s questions. I completely take the point that the environment of school is unsuited to the child. Absolutely uncontroversial in the specific situation I am thinking of.

However I feel that the environment is seriously hard for parents to change. Primary school does not offer any place of retreat and presumably schools would want a diagnosis before spending on any kind of special provision, and as we all know diagnosis takes years unless you pay for it.

End result the school lessons are very hard and exhausting because of not being able to keep up with the work due to dyslexia, friendships are impossible to keep up with, so breaks and lunchtimes are awful too. School is all in all a total disaster. Apart from the lunches on some days!

I just don’t know what else in the short term can be provided to help a child from home in this kind of situation, apart from seeking out a kindly professional adult listening to problems. Maybe that’s not therapy-is that perhaps more counselling?

But anyway, I can see how with no other support accessible, parents get to their wits’ end and just want to help their child emotionally in a way that they can provide without needing a professional referral first. (If they have the resources to- not everyone will have that..)

Aleaiactaest · 12/01/2023 10:58

I had one of my DC assessed with similar presentation … turned out he wasn’t autistic but just highly gifted. So there is that too. Due to his intellect and interests he was always way ahead of other kids so that impacted him socially because he wanted to talk about Shakespeare on the playground and global warming age 5/6 when the others wanted to play It and hide and seek and we thought it could be autism. He was also very sensitive and overly organised about certain things, well yes, because he is particular about stuff. You can be highly gifted and not autistic and it can present similarly. You can also have some processing issues at the same time - like mine has absolutely pitch and hears things more loudly than others so that kind of thing can look like autism at first. There are so many different things that can impact a child, it really isn’t always autism.

And yes, Year 7 transition is a big one. For many kids. You go from small homely primary environment with one teacher to moving around, multiple classrooms, homework, multiple subjects, different kids and different sets, whole new friendship groups and stresses and hormones kick in and some kids are huge and others are small etc etc. My boys were small for their age and really intellectual, that impacted them too. So many different things come into play. I think most of the secondary school years have their challenges: Year 7 transition, Year 8 no man’s land. Year 9 huge girl hormone fest, Year 10 first GCSE year and strict teachers, Year 11 GCSE, Year 12 L6 and A level step up, Year 13 A levels, uni choices etc. It is all a challenge, these secondary years.

tpmumtobe · 12/01/2023 10:07

Ha! I know the feeling! So glad he's feeling better. We've had similar conversations here. DS is allowed to decamp to his school's SEN block when he feels anxious and confessed at one point that he thought it was a bit counterproductive because obviously he enjoys loafing on the squishy sofas and watching a movie more than going to maths! After his last wobble he also said that it makes a big difference to have people who care and let him have a breather when he needs it, but who also encourage him to stick with it and champion his achievements when he does overcome the anxiety, because he recognises that he wants to challenge it. He said it's easier to go back into lessons knowing that safety net is there.