Page 5 | Teachers taking photos outside of school

Always2022 · 2022-09-17T14:20:00+00:00

Hoping that somebody on here might be able to throw some light on a subject for me. Does anybody know the legalities of a Headteacher taking a photograph of a student after school and outside of the school grounds? I think she was hoping to catch out my ds (16) who is currently suspended for walking out of a class (not for anything violent, but he's clashing with his teacher and has very low tolerance at the moment). He was returning some trainers to a friend after school (outside of the grounds) and turned around to see the Headteacher taking photos of him! My instinct is that it can't be legal but I'm struggling to find the definitive answer to this via their policies on their website. If anybody has any thoughts or even better knows what the legal standpoint would be, I'd be really grateful if you could comment on this post. Thanks in advance.

Johnnysgirl · 17/09/2022 19:06

Pumperthepumper · 17/09/2022 18:16

It’s the adults who set the rules though.

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What are you talking about? The rules apply to all the (several hundred, at least) children at the school. Not just him.

itsgettingweird · 17/09/2022 19:06

Always2022 · 17/09/2022 19:00

@NeverDropYourMooncup Yes I can see now that the reason for the photo being taken (even though I'm not particularly happy with it, but that's not the point). And yes, he was out AFTER the suspension had ended.

If at the reintegration meeting it's mentioned you can just say "as the susie Zion had ended I didn't realise it wasn't ok. But I realise now it wasn't a wise decision and apologise".

If they drop it or if they keep going on about it as the important point it'll tell you all you need to know about their intentions to support your son or not.

Original poster

Always2022 · 17/09/2022 19:00

@NeverDropYourMooncup Yes I can see now that the reason for the photo being taken (even though I'm not particularly happy with it, but that's not the point). And yes, he was out AFTER the suspension had ended.

OP posts:

Original poster

Always2022 · 17/09/2022 18:56

@MumofSpud Oh I am! I'm concentrating on the cause of it, our part in managing it and the effect it has on the children and teachers at school. My post was simply to ask others' perspective the issue around taking photos and this has been addressed thanks to some other posts.

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NeverDropYourMooncup · 17/09/2022 18:56

Always2022 · 17/09/2022 18:12

@Hopeandlove Good point. I absolutely don't know if a photo was taken. The reintegration meeting will no doubt throw some light on this. Just to clarify, this was after school had finished and happened on the day the suspension finished also.

But was it after the time that the suspension letter stated that the suspension ended?

If not, it's an offence you have committed by allowing him out. And if there's a photo, there is unarguable evidence of that offence being committed.

itsgettingweird · 17/09/2022 18:54

Always2022 · 17/09/2022 18:40

@itsgettingweird Thank you for your considered and very helpful response.
I feel like I've totally put myself into the firing line here!
It looks like I’ve mentioned trainers as an excuse to let my child break the rules – this is not the case and actually the trainers weren’t the main reason for him being there – he really wanted to see his friend and felt that outside of the school and after the ban that this would not be breaking the rules – he is not a rule-breaker, nor an antagoniser.
You’re right about the behaviours and the alignment with the school.
We have tried to address this previously but he is seriously lacks confidence and the idea of him moving to a different educational setting has always terrified him.
We are working on the issues surrounding his lack of confidence in tandem with working with the school and supporting their behaviour policy.
It is very easy to assume from my post that I have a persistently naughty child when this is not the case.
His younger sister on the other hand is a head girl, involved in lots of school activities and the two couldn’t be more different (which adds another layer of pressure to his already low self-esteem unfortunately).
Thank you for framing the situation in a helpful way, into the 2 issues.
I have been working so incredibly hard on the reasons behind all of this and the best way to deal with everything that my head is spinning somewhat.
You make a very good point about how a detention for forgetting a pencil will use up his already depleted resources – realistic targets and the chance to get it right.
It does seem however that the school have already made up their mind as you have already suggested and I think this is why I do feel defensive.
We are totally focussed on targeting his behaviours, his lack of self-esteem and his management of emotions in dealing with uncomfortable situations.
Life sometimes isn’t fair and neither is school so we are working on resilience alongside helping him understand the perspective of the adults who are trying to maintain boundaries at school.
I greatly appreciate your time in replying so constructively and thoughtfully.

My ds went through it. Feel free to search my username for all my posts re my ds and how the schools attitude resulted in him having a knife pulled on him in class and then when he tried to end his own life through fear they refused to authorise his absence for illness as they didn't think he should be anxious.

He was already under camhs for what camhs diagnosed with school related anxiety. Which of course - was caused by the school.

My ds never misbehaved. The school even said this. But they'd punish him for walking out of class when the teacher refused for him to use his time out card (they gave him!) because they felt he was fine.

Ended up in a tribunal and the judge asked some very interesting questions to the senco - including - what's your job role, qualifications and why do you think what camhs and mum and ds are saying is untrue?!

He did a managed move which was so hard for him to start again when at the bottom of any confidence he ever had.

Turned out to be the best thing EVER. New school worked so hard with him - were open and honest with me - and made me feel like I was important in his life and in helping him rather than fighting me at every turn as being irrelevant as I'm not school staff.

The initial school told me on day 3 that they didn't need my input on how to support my ds because they are experts in education.

Should have realised then that they were "our way or the highway". Because they apparently didn't need input on how to support a child who has a genetic condition that 1:1 million people have - being experts in a condition they hadn't heard of and that many neurologists won't even ever have treated patients with 🤦🏼‍♀️

If my ds misbehaves he gets my boot! But it was literally nothing to do with bad behaviour but more he couldn't manage the pressures of being perfect and coping with school without support that they felt he should.

MumofSpud · 17/09/2022 18:50

If I were you I'd concentrate on helping your DS change his behaviour (he's in his GCSE year?) - that's the important part!

Sherrystrull · 17/09/2022 18:48

Op, telling posters that disagree with you that they are being unhelpful is missing the opportunity that listening to differing opinions is actually very helpful.

Focus on your child.

itsgettingweird · 17/09/2022 18:44

Patapouf · 17/09/2022 18:26

Maybe worry more about why your child has been suspended OP?

If you read the thread you'll see she is.

And is taking steps - with him - to out this right.

She's concerned that it'll be hard for him to do this if the HT isn't going to give him a fair chance.

And having worked in many schools I can assure you there are some who won't.

Authoritarian headteachers aren't right for students who need pastoral support. In fact - they are damaging.

Original poster

Always2022 · 17/09/2022 18:44

@Charcy Thank you for your comment and wishes

OP posts:

Original poster

Always2022 · 17/09/2022 18:40

@itsgettingweird Thank you for your considered and very helpful response.
I feel like I've totally put myself into the firing line here!
It looks like I’ve mentioned trainers as an excuse to let my child break the rules – this is not the case and actually the trainers weren’t the main reason for him being there – he really wanted to see his friend and felt that outside of the school and after the ban that this would not be breaking the rules – he is not a rule-breaker, nor an antagoniser.
You’re right about the behaviours and the alignment with the school.
We have tried to address this previously but he is seriously lacks confidence and the idea of him moving to a different educational setting has always terrified him.
We are working on the issues surrounding his lack of confidence in tandem with working with the school and supporting their behaviour policy.
It is very easy to assume from my post that I have a persistently naughty child when this is not the case.
His younger sister on the other hand is a head girl, involved in lots of school activities and the two couldn’t be more different (which adds another layer of pressure to his already low self-esteem unfortunately).
Thank you for framing the situation in a helpful way, into the 2 issues.
I have been working so incredibly hard on the reasons behind all of this and the best way to deal with everything that my head is spinning somewhat.
You make a very good point about how a detention for forgetting a pencil will use up his already depleted resources – realistic targets and the chance to get it right.
It does seem however that the school have already made up their mind as you have already suggested and I think this is why I do feel defensive.
We are totally focussed on targeting his behaviours, his lack of self-esteem and his management of emotions in dealing with uncomfortable situations.
Life sometimes isn’t fair and neither is school so we are working on resilience alongside helping him understand the perspective of the adults who are trying to maintain boundaries at school.
I greatly appreciate your time in replying so constructively and thoughtfully.

OP posts:

Pumperthepumper · 17/09/2022 18:33

It’s because punishing him won’t work.

Hopeandlove · 17/09/2022 18:31

Johnnysgirl · 17/09/2022 15:41

So it seems that my real issue here is that a teacher is taking a photograph of my son
Whereas your real issue should be why your son is walking out of class, and having been suspended for doing so; is hanging around the school gates at school letting out time.

This. Although to be frank a 3 day exclusion for walking out of class - my bloody foot. That is absolutely not true.
how many exclusions has he had before?
what did he actually do?

your minimising it and then taking him to the school against the terms of the exclusion. Giving him a good jolly to meet his friends !!! Why not punish him. he stays home does some school work, writes some apology letters, doesn’t have his phone and games etc and discusses manners and you actually support the school

if he has a three day exclusion it is for something serious / so maybe think about the health and well-being of the students who want to learn and the teachers that want to teach

Charcy · 17/09/2022 18:31

Always2022 · 17/09/2022 17:10

Thank you for your comments everybody - some have been helpful (others not so) but suffice to say, if you put something onto a public forum you can expect strong opinions back so that's on my head.
It's never nice to learn about kids being suspended and believe me, I am reeling with this experience - I don't think I was told off once during my years at school but my son seems to be having a very different experience - something that we are working on with all our energies.
Not that I have to justify myself, but I can assure you that I AM focussing on his behaviour and have been working on this for a very long time.
I'm not proud of the fact that he has managed to get a suspension and it has afforded us a great deal of time to work on the reasons behind it and use it as a learning opportunity.
In my experience, using the "rocket up the arse" approach pushes the kids further away and makes them more angry and less likely to engage maturely with adults.

I'm not asking for your blessings, was just trying to get some perspective, which has been generously offered.
It looks like I should have been more careful about my son meeting up with a friend after school and can see now that the HT was clearly building up a case against him. Something she has a right to do but it does feel slightly extreme considering that this was the first time he had seen his friend since the suspension and in fact the suspension finished on this day. This is NOT about complaining to the school and I'm suddenly realising how I have made things worse by letting him see his friend at the point that I thought it was acceptable to do so - that is on me.
Thank you all again for your time in commenting, especially those who have helped me to see a different perspective.

First time I've ever seen a gracious response from on OP.
Hopefully your child will follow suit in terms of accepting when situations gave perhaps been handled incorrectly, reflection and progress.
Good luck ironing out the issues OP.

Curioushorse · 17/09/2022 18:29

Apologies! You didn't say five days. But I've never heard of an exclusion of any time period for just walking out of a lesson.

Pumperthepumper · 17/09/2022 18:29

Patapouf · 17/09/2022 18:26

Maybe worry more about why your child has been suspended OP?

OR wonder why an adult invaded the privacy of a sixteen year old, rather than approaching him and saying ‘your suspension means you can’t be here just now, off you go’.

Curioushorse · 17/09/2022 18:26

Hmmm. Taking photos of children is obviously a safeguarding issue, but in this instance it's unlikely to be a problem.

If it's the headteacher, you may actually find it's a school phone. I don't know your school, but at ours, because of the nature of the site, some of SLT have 'school phones' as they wander round. This actually sounds like that scenario- just because when SLT are standing outside the gates at the start and end of school, they may need to be contacted. If that's the case, it's a complete non-issue, because the photo is then definitely not for personal use, and is owned by the school.

If we take photos of students on a school site they need to be stored on the school computers ASAP and deleted from the phone. I suspect it would fall under that category.

And the purpose was to document the breaking of a serious rule. I think she was being responsible and professional. I suspect even if it was considered questionable, that is what any conclusion would be.

.......though no child gets a five day exclusion just for walking out of a lesson.

Patapouf · 17/09/2022 18:26

Maybe worry more about why your child has been suspended OP?

user1496146479 · 17/09/2022 18:23

Stomacharmeleon · 17/09/2022 17:47

There is no need to be rude @Johnnysgirl

I think @Johnnysgirl is quite on the money!!!

Original poster

Always2022 · 17/09/2022 18:18

@PriamFarrl

"I suspect this isn’t the first time you have put the blame somewhere else".

You have jumped to a very incorrect conclusion here. IF, I am misplacing my concerns here (even though I have every right to be concerned about everything in this situation) it does NOT automatically mean that I am the sort of person who tends to blame other people.

Please can you not be so inflammatory - it's so unhelpful!

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Pumperthepumper · 17/09/2022 18:16

Johnnysgirl · 17/09/2022 18:14

I doubt very much that he's in a school of adults, actually. That's not the makeup of any normal school 🤨

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It’s the adults who set the rules though.

Johnnysgirl · 17/09/2022 18:14

Pumperthepumper · 17/09/2022 18:11

And that’s absolutely fair enough- he’s sixteen years old in a school of adults. I think people underestimate how taxing the routine of school is on loads of kids - so little control over their day, constantly bombarded with new learning, very little time for escape (through say, imaginative play or even somewhere to sit and read a book in peace). I honestly think if we put adults through what we expect from teenagers we would see riots.

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I doubt very much that he's in a school of adults, actually. That's not the makeup of any normal school 🤨

PriamFarrl · 17/09/2022 18:14

Always2022 · 17/09/2022 18:06

@PriamFarrl Actually, I've never bent the rules. Nor, was I intending to. I was asking a question to help frame how I was feeling. Some of the responses have been helpful in that regard. I don't understand why people feel the need to be rude when it isn't called for.

So the rule is that he can’t go to school and meet up with his friends? He has some trainers that he needs to pass on to another child so rather than doing this in your own houses, or between parents, you take him to school. Can’t you see how this is bending the rules?

Original poster

Always2022 · 17/09/2022 18:12

@Hopeandlove Good point. I absolutely don't know if a photo was taken. The reintegration meeting will no doubt throw some light on this. Just to clarify, this was after school had finished and happened on the day the suspension finished also.

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PassMeThePineapple · 17/09/2022 18:11

Best thing for you to do now is encourage your son to concentrate on his GCSEs and allow the others in his class to concentrate on theirs too, rather than trying to find fault with the teachers and taking up their time with stuff like this. They'd rather be focusing on helping the kids who want to learn through their GCSEs.