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If you were me, which of these schools would you put as your first choice?

58 replies

GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal · 17/09/2022 09:50

DD is in Y6, so we're about to start applying for her secondary school place. We have a reasonably good chance of getting either of the following schools:

School A: mixed comprehensive. Rated Good by Ofsted in 2018. Considered, both locally and by the CEO of an organisation called "inclusion expert" to give the most outstanding pastoral care and support to its students. The entire school ethos seems to be focused on getting the best from each individual child, in a supportive and creative way.

However, Whilst situated in what would be considered an affluent area it is on the edge of a super output area with high levels of deprivation and poverty, including one ward which is in the top 25% for low income and crime, so the starting point for a lot of these kids makes this a challenging aim. Also, their exam results really aren't great - below average not just for the area, but for England. The impression I got when I attended the open evening last year was that this is at least in part because the school's focus is on well-being over academic achievement. I really loved it at the time, it just had a warm and welcoming atmosphere, and the Head seemed like an incredible women. Inspired and driven.

School B: Outstanding single sex girls comprehensive. 56% of pupils achieved grades 9-7 in last year's GCSEs. Pastorally, it's considered good. Very popular with local parents, and I've heard nothing bad about it. I couldn't attend their open evening last year as it got cancelled by Health England so haven't had the chance to form my own opinion yet.

We're going to attend open evenings and working day visits at both, which will hopefully help us decide, because at the moment I keep going back and forth between "my main priority for DD is her health and well-being, and school A will prioritise that", and "but the whole reason for going to school is to get decent exam results, and school B will give her the best chance of that."

Other schools in the area we either have no chance of getting or have similar exam results to school A but without the outstanding pastoral care.

As for DD herself, she's autistic and extremely bright and academic. No learning difficulties but does very much struggle socially and with anxiety, hence pastoral care and a supportive environment being such a priority. She's a loner, but does tend to prefer boys to girls, and isn't keen on a single sex school. A lot of other girls from her primary school will go to school B; hardly any, if any at all will go to school A (there's a lot of snobbery about it, some parents recoiled in horror when I mentioned I was considering it!) DD regards not knowing anyone as a positive - I get the impression she's rather hoping to reinvent herself at secondary.

Finally, I have mixed feelings about single sex education. I know a lot of research says it's better for girls, but I went to an all girls school and had a truly awful time, my life was made miserable by other girls. DD is not me, though, so I'm trying not to let that cloud my viewpoint! She has a younger brother, so it would certainly be easier to have them both at the same school.

Well done if you got through that essay! I'd really love to hear from other parents who've made a similar choice, or from teachers with some expertise to share. Thanks!

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JaffavsCookie · 22/09/2022 22:22

Starting GCSE courses in y9 is generally considered to be a “bad” thing, it limits and reduces choices very early on, it will mean by Jan of y8 your dd needs to decide what subjects to drop. Single sex girls schools can be very intense but they also tend to have much higher %s of kids doing physics at A level which obviously opens all sorts of career opportunities. iMedia would generally be considered a GCSE for less able kids.

Stokey · 22/09/2022 21:48

Interesting read as we have very similar options although DD2 is neurotypical. School A in my area has stopped setting altogether which in a way is positive - more inclusive, supportive - but reports of behaviour in class that I hear from friends in Y8 is not encouraging. It does have good Senco and pastoral care but my impression is that it isn't stretching at the higher end.

But DD2 is definitely keener on mixed than the more academic girls school.

It's so hard with the covid years skewing results, and probably behaviour.

GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal · 22/09/2022 21:33

Went to the open evening for school A tonight. I was still very impressed and DD loved it. She especially came to life when talking to the IT teacher - it was the first time I realised just how passionate she is about the subject, and they do two IT GCSEs there - Computer Science and iMedia, which really captured her imagination.

I was also impressed by the art teacher, who when asked by DD if they did any digital art, told her not in Y7 but if it was something she wanted to do they could set up a club for it.

During the talk we heard from a graduating pupil who got 4 A* at A Level and is off to Oxford to read Physics, so obviously some pupils do well academically - and the young student showing us round, when asked what her favourite thing about the school was, said she liked that all the teachers are really passionate and enthusiastic about their subjects (that came across in the ones we talked to, as well).

One thing our guide mentioned which I wondered about and didn't get a chance to ask a member of staff about was that they start their GCSE courses in Y9, so do them over three years not two. My instinct is that sounded like a good, less pressurised approach, but I'm not sure why they've chosen to do it?

Anyway, DD loved it and says the girls' school is going to have a hard act to follow!

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RedPanda2022 · 20/09/2022 12:50

Speaking as someone with a ds with ASD I would visit and meet the SENCO for each school. Ask to meet a pupil or pupils with ASD in the school. Most will facilitate this and you ask what support they get. Even if they say no that might give you useful information.
I found this highly beneficial in investigating schools as they all say basically the same things on the surface.
my ds definitely does better in a supportive more flexible less competitive environment even if the overall results of the school are not stellar
good luck!

PolkaDotShoes · 19/09/2022 15:22

GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal · 19/09/2022 11:10

Ofsted was in 2013, so nearly a decade ago.

It will get re-inspected soon, and statistically, is more likely than not to lose that outstanding grading.

Readerofwords · 19/09/2022 12:10

TeenDivided · 17/09/2022 10:32

B then, probably. If it goes wrong, transfer to A. Probably going to be easier that way around.

Assuming school A isn't likely to be heavily oversubscribed, I would definitely consider this. I found that decisions regarding school choices seemed set in stone and the pressure to make the "right" choice was immense. In reality, I was amazed at how many of my DCs cohort changed schools in Yr7.

GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal · 19/09/2022 11:10

Ofsted was in 2013, so nearly a decade ago.

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PolkaDotShoes · 19/09/2022 09:12

How long ago was the Outstanding Ofsted awarded? Don't necessarily be swung by that as many "Outstanding" schools haven't been inspected for as many as 15 years.
Inspections are now happening again, and under the new inspection framework, it's much harder to secure a top grading. Supposedly outstanding schools near me are being downgraded left, right and centre.

bluestarthread · 19/09/2022 09:01

My DD has just left a school A with a great set of GCSEs, so while the academic progress for the whole school cohort isn’t great, it hasn’t held her back. BUT she is on an ASD pathway and found some aspects of the co-Ed environment really difficult: low level (and some major) disruption in class, mixed ability class groups, and ever stricter rules in an attempt to control even minor infringements of behaviour policies. But there were excellent extra curricular options that she enjoyed, so-so pastoral support, and eventually some recognition of her likely ASD characteristics - still awaiting assessment.

Had she had the option of a school B locally she might have had a calmer experience that hadn’t triggered her so badly, but maybe that would have just bumped some of those reactions further down the line.
Keep an open mind - visit both, and see what she thinks.

GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal · 19/09/2022 08:30

LadyLapsang · 18/09/2022 22:07

School B, especially if it has a sixth form which i think it will. Have you compared KS 5 results? Was your mum an EA in the same area?

Both schools have sixth forms. Haven't compared KS5 results as had assumed by then DD will make her own decision about where to take A Levels.

And no, mum was an EA at a completely different LEA, and retired over a decade ago. She'd be in the first to admit that her expert opinion is not terribly up-to-date.

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ShowOfHands · 18/09/2022 22:31

My DD wanted to start again, be in a class where nobody knew her and preferred the company/interests of boys. These factors featured heavily in us rejecting a shiny bells and whistles academic school and choosing a school which was smaller and absolutely brilliant at pastoral care. DD is very bright.

She's in y11 now, has a strong and brilliant group of all male friends and just got all 8s and 9s in her mocks. She has blossomed/thrived and it was absolutely the right choice.

We visited 3 schools and we knew from that which way to go. I was torn beforehand but the settings sold themselves in different ways.

Amiable · 18/09/2022 22:21

My autistic DD has just completed GCSEs and sounds a lot like yours - academically able but struggles with social anxiety, friendships etc.

Please, for the sake of your daughter, go for the school that has the best pastoral care.

My DD really struggled with school - too loud, too many people, confusing social expectations - but went into year 10 predicted 10 grade 9s. However it just became too much for her, and to cut a (very!) long story short, she ended up on our local council's outreach program being taught at home, and got 4 GCSEs mixed grades.

Your DDs mental health is far more important than grades - she can always retake, or study in later life, so please consider her well-being first.

As a side note, my DD has just started an art diploma at a local college and is loving it, but it has been a rocky road to get here!

LadyLapsang · 18/09/2022 22:07

School B, especially if it has a sixth form which i think it will. Have you compared KS 5 results? Was your mum an EA in the same area?

GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal · 18/09/2022 19:29

Now50 · 18/09/2022 09:56

I was going to pick up on the boys thing. Where are the boys from her primary going? Is there a third choice?

There's a boys school that a lot of them will be going to. A few will go private - some have already left for prep school. And there's two Outstanding co-ed comps that we're nowhere near but some parents have moved closer to in the last year.

The variety of responses here make it clear this really isn't an easy decision, as there are pro and cons for both. I think I really do have to take DD's opinion into account as a deciding factor. I just worry that hers is not necessarily the most rational viewpoint! She said to me yesterday "I definitely want to go to school A, but it's at least partly out of stubbornness because I know you want me to go to school B." This isn't even true! I wish it was that easy!!

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OldWivesTale · 18/09/2022 11:20

Do they put the children into sets in school A?

I think I might be drawn to B simply because if she hates school B then she would probably still be able to transfer to school A, whereas I'm guessing school B is oversubscribed.

It's so hard to make a decision. They should let pupils do trial weeks at several schools before applications.

My dd sounds very similar to yours - ASD, bright, prefers boys - and she hated the idea of the single sex school so she went to the mixed academy and hated that too. We had years of misery and we ended up taking her out in years 10 and 11 and sending her to a more nurturing, but still academic, private school which she absolutely loved - wish we'd done it sooner - but I appreciate that not everybody has this option.

Misandre · 18/09/2022 11:06

There are pros and cons to the Fast tracking approach but it sounds like it could be a great fit in this case.

It's quite hard to swim against the tide when your friends are all keen on school B but your update on school A is positively glowing. Talk to the Sencos though. On paper either school should be able to meet her needs, but the way that is delivered in practice can vary so much.

Also ask how many DC they have with EHCPs. Lots can mean they are better at securing help for children who need it. Also a broad brush perception of need is really important for kids like your DD. Ask them how many academically able children they have with EHCPs, even if you don't think she'll need one. It might give an indication of how tuned in they are to academically able children needing substantial support.

plinkypots · 18/09/2022 10:44

B without a doubt for a bright ASD girl. If B doesn't work out she will always get a place at A.

CatSpeakForDummies · 18/09/2022 10:13

I am going against the grain here but would definitely choose A. If most of the academic girls are being peeled off to school B, then of course the academic results will be below national average. Do they even account for the boy heavy intake when they calculate progress score?

I have an autistic DD and I really feel that she struggles most in a homogenous environment, where she is likely to stand out more. If she's surrounded by academic girls, she will start to see herself as the odd one. If she's surrounded by all sorts of people, she'll see herself as an academic girl.

Of course, all ASD children are different, but I wouldn't hesitate to pick A.

Your sense of self develops in high school along with your grades. It sounds as if you are weighing up straight As and low self esteem with the risk of a single B and a more secure child.

Comedycook · 18/09/2022 10:09

I'd choose B in a heartbeat but then I read that your dd gets on better with boys than girls, so on that basis, I'd go for A

LSSG · 18/09/2022 10:06

I would have said B until you said she prefers the company of boys! Is that likely to continue through the teenage years though...

Subject to that, if you like them both well, I'd be guided by her. At least she will feel listened to.

Now50 · 18/09/2022 09:56

I was going to pick up on the boys thing. Where are the boys from her primary going? Is there a third choice?

jacostajune · 17/09/2022 20:05

@GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal in your OP you mention that your daughter isn't keen on a single sex school school and seems to prefer hanging around with boys rather than girls. That alone would make me nervous about her going to an all-girls school.

lanthanum · 17/09/2022 18:35

If your daughter is "extremely bright and academic", I would look not so much at the progress 8/ attainment 8 scores, but at the actual results and the number of top grades in core subjects. If you can see that they are getting a decent number of top grades in the core subjects (option subjects will vary according to which children choose them), then your daughter is likely to do likewise. It might be a low percentage that are getting those grades, but they are not prevented from doing so by the overall academic profile.
If there are very few top grades, that doesn't necessarily mean the teaching isn't good enough, but it might mean your daughter would struggle to find like-minded peers.

GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal · 17/09/2022 16:38

I'm really pleased so many people have taken the time to read and respond, it's so helpful and really means a lot.

I've been pootling about on both schools websites, and I've found school A "fast tracks" the more academically able Y7 students:

"Our Fast Track course is designed to stretch the more able. There is a Fast Track group in English, Mathematics and Science. Students on our Fast Track curriculum are also invited to take part in our Latin Club where students learn about Ancient Rome and Greece (Classics) and take modules from the Cambridge Latin course. "

That sounds quite positive, I think? DD is fascinated by Ancient Greece and Rome.

I also read the report from the inclusion assessment they had done in 2019, and it's absolutely glowing. Said the school was "a shining example of outstanding practices."

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Misandre · 17/09/2022 16:21

Also I take progress 8 scores with a bit of a pinch of salt, because you can almost predict them round here based on how middle class the intake is. They are meant to be a leveller but in practice I do think schools taking from more deprived areas are disadvantaged.

I am more interested in how well their most academic kids do. If some of them do really well, then your child can too. But, crucially, only if their mental health stays good enough for them to stay in school and sit their exams. We have learned the hard way not to take that for granted.

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