Headteacher meeting, awaiting diagnosis

You might want to check out the school they want her to go to. If it was inadequate 2 years ago, it's likely had a massive injection of support and resources to bring it up to standard. It might be just what she needs - at least talk to the suggested school and ask what they would put in place for her.

Follow this with an email stating what was discussed and you expect to receive a copy of the support plan for the next four weeks (they have to send a copy of this to the local authority as well)

This isn't good enough. A managed move isn't off rolling but isn't the way to go either.

I have ADHD completely unrecognised through childhood and was in a high pressure all girls school. My parents believed the schools narrative...that I was lazy, messy, disorganised and silly.. and punished me accordingly. Apparently if I wanted to and tried harder it would all go away.. I was left with crippling anxiety, low self esteem and a lifelong belief that unless I am 100% perfect then I am useless. No amount of therapy has managed to shift my deep seated feeling of inadequacy. I worked my arse of and achieved well to the outside world but the costs were too high. Please stop punishing your daughter... it sounds like she is giving up on herself. She needs you to have her back. My son has ADHD too, and the best thing I can do for him is say you are ok, you may find this hard, but I see you and I know how hard this is for you. It may not be ADHD, my daughter has dyspraxia and slow processing and presents with similar problems... her primary school nearly broke her by not recognising it and insisting she needed to try harder, until I stood up and said no... and pushed until we worked out what was going on. Good luck. The fact you are are asking how to challenge school is a massive step in the right direction...

Oh OP - as someone with two children with SEN (ASD/ADHD/DCD) I found this very upsetting to read. Please repeat to yourself the mantra ‘children do well when they can’. When there are consistent issues like this there are usually root causes which are not bad behaviour or character deficits. The school is the issue here, not your child. They have made no attempt to differentiate their approach to identify why your child might be struggling. I would go in and out them on the back foot as they are failing and harming your daughter. It is clear - even without any diagnosis - that she needs support and they are refusing to provide it and punishing her for things that she may have no control over. Ask them how they are going to help her. If they refuse to budge I would seriously consider moving school.

I would also look at atypical ASD and PDA, girls can present so differently and problems often come to the fore in secondary. The behavioural strategies you are using absolutely won't work if it is PDA or she has PDA traits, in fact they will be counter-productive. The school do sound terrible by the way.

appointment

It is blindingly obvious school is not the right enviroment for your daughter, the way they are dealing with it causes more damage than good.
My friends daughter has really struggled at school, she is now volunteering in a local cattery until appoibtment with CAHMS, and its like shes a completely different person. Sometimes a temp interruption from school enviroment is the best cure, she can sit her exams at any age.

Possibly too late for your meeting.
Ask about the PSP (personal support plan) which if they have this many concerns should be well and truly in place. It sets out what they expect, what support she can expect and what she should be doing if things start to go wrong. Objectives have to follow a set pattern and be achievable (not pie in the sky that she can't possibly achieve)
If the school feel that it's gone further than that , it will be a FPSP (final personal support plan)
Also contact your local authority and ask to speak to the fair access team, they can signpost you to what should be happening and guide you through the process if you do want to apply for another school.
All of the above doesn't need a diagnosis. Also contact sendias for advice.
They can't off roll her... Do not agree to home educate, reduced timetable or anything of the like.
Ask for an appointment with the sendco at school and find out what their plans are to support her whilst she is on the diagnosis pathway.

The school sound horribly harsh on a child that is clearly struggling. My DD with ADHD has appalling organisational skills. She'd be late every day if her mates didn't come round and help her. She's gone today and left all her books at home. She'll get a reminder but also some leeway.

@WitsHaveEnded
That was what I was thinking. This is a cycle of events that needs breaking.

You need to change schools for your daughter to have a fresh start. This school sounds horrible

@WitsHaveEnded
One thing that occurs to me is why she doesn’t have a “buddy” to copy regarding collecting books snd moving on to the next class. What is she doing when the others are already in class? Is she in an empty corridor? Can you find out what she is doing on her own? She must now know what will happen so does she just accept it?

I think I would be giving up at this point. Look at other schools.

You're doing great op. Anyone can be wise with hindsight, the causes of all this remain to be seen and if the school keep repeating strategies that aren't working because ultimately the root cause isn't your daughter is naughty then it's good everyone realises that. They should want to work with you.

Sorry op, didn’t mean to make you cry! You are doing your very best for her, clearly.

I find IPSEA often have some nice quotable paragraphs that you can borrow. Schools seem to sit up and notice! No need to update unless it helps you xx

Hi op, I just wanted to say that I hope the meeting goes as well as possible, and to be kind to yourself afterwards. I know that after school meetings about DC’s SEN, even positive ones, I feel wiped out and ground down- never mind the negative ones! I’ve learned to do something nice afterwards - DH and I often do a sort of debrief lunch date that lets us talk out all the feelings from the meeting and gradually move on to pleasanter topics. I know you mentioned an unplanned day off, so if you’re not straight back to work maybe treat yourself to lunch, or a coffee, or a long walk or swim, or a long bath or a stupid movie? Maybe you’re the type of person to find more comfort from making an action plan and lots of phone calls straight away but you sound really at the end of your tether, and it might help to spend at least some of your day off doing something for you.

I also wanted to say that I sympathise with feeling like you can’t let up on discipline at home because maybe there is no ‘excuse’ for the behaviour, and feeling like you have to try something. I’ve definitely been there. I think it’s not helpful when posters tell you off for that and try to make you feel bad, because you already feel bad! I wonder if you could try this weekend to do an activity just you and DD that you both enjoy, as a sort of reset? Sometimes that helps us- doing the nice thing anyway and remembering that we’re a family and work together.

I would think about moving schools if there is a better alternative that may cope with how she is. Perhaps ask the nearby schools if they would be better for her.

The school I went to was selective. I couldn't cope with the work load. I could cope with the content but not all the extra homework they gave. I got punished over and over. Detentions constantly for not doing work but then not being allowed to complete homework in the detention therefore allowing less time for that evenings homework and a continuous cycle of despair. Eventually it ended up with lunch time detentions as well and being sent out the classroom when I was disruptive because I was so stressed by the situation but couldn't explain why I was like I was.

It knocked my confidence and affected my exam results. As I was bright (hence the selective school) I got my exam passes but I had to spend most of my early 20's recovering my confidence that I wasn't all the school made me out to be. I wish so much my parents had moved me. I can still recall now I'm late 30's being told I got yet another detention and by the end feeling a sense of 'whatever' and giving up.
It doesn't actually teach you anything being punished over and over, a one off detention yes but just keep punishing over and over achieves nothing. Just that you're the one who can't seem to get things right.
I'd definitely try to move her and use your own parental instincts with your dc to consider which schools may be better.

I'd also consider whether or not punishing at home on top of school is the best move. Perhaps counselling may help as well resolve what your dd is feeling as it doesn't sound like she's articulating it well.

Google

Ipsea
Sossen

They will tell you of your legal rights on unlawful exclusions and off rolling.

If your dd does have ADHD you need to arm yourself with her legal rights. Maybe think about ehcp and appealing for one if needs be. You do not legally need a diagnosis.

Don't take anything school say as gospel. Unfortunately schools do not understand the laws around SEN and the send code of practice.

Eg I had a senco tell me my child had to be two years behind for a ehcp and another tell me that at 15 no EP would see my child. Both utter BS and unlawful

This sounds exactly like my eldest DS at 13/14 who was eventually diagnosed with ADHD at 17. I’m not criticising as I was where you were but I wish I hadn’t put my energies into punishing him for what was actually quite low level stuff (hindsight etc) and instead on to pressuring the school to do more for him. They did once he had diagnosis but only just a few months before he was due to finish. I didn’t realise that you can ask for an IDP without a diagnosis but you have evidence of being on ADHD pathway etc.
@Leonarar and others have given good advice especially the poster who advised looking the school/teacher in the eye asking them what THEY are going to do for DD.
Our school is very academic but have actually stepped up with SEN support (my third DS has dyspraxia/ASD all recently diagnosed) but I’ve had to keep the pressure on. Good luck!

OP i just wanted to reassure you that you can use all the techniques that work for children with adhd, even if your child turns out not to have adhd. They arent harmful and work with neurotypical children too. Have a good look at things that can help with adhd and just start doing it.

I would say the same to the school. Support should be needs led. If adhd techniques work for her then they should go for it as the ordinary techniques are not working. Its 100% clear what they are doing isnt working so what have they got to lose?

@Threelittlelambs
The big question in my mind is why the school cannot (will not) start to help this DD.m with strategies. This cannot be the only incidence of these traits? They have a duty to do so. Yes, these behaviours are annoying but SEND often is. I would look closely at their policy on Send and hold them to account. If a child cannot complete work because they are not getting help, punishment is not appropriate.

I would look at other schools. I suspect this one doesn’t want some types of DC.

www.dyslexia.com/about-dyslexia/signs-of-dyslexia/test-for-dyslexia-37-signs/