DH wants DC to reconsider A Level choices.

@Fizbosshoes

Is your DD heading for a career in At? If so has she looked at BTEC Art and Design?

It would give her a chance to explore things like photography, 3D art, fashion. Lots of different art and art related modules.

We were advised to include an essay subject and that a creative would also really benefit him.

If he may want to do law then either philosophy or music will provide the essay and analysis core skills that may later be helpful. Up to him whether he wants to do music as an academic subject. He will have the ‘creative’ benefit without doing it. At my DCs’ schools, talented musicians (distinction in diploma year 12/13) quite frequently chose not to do music as an A level as they could do what they liked best -performing- without it and that freed up another A level slot.
If he is serious about liking chemistry most then he should consider that chemistry degrees or chemical engineering will include physics. Also physics and philosophy go well together. One of my DCs much preferred chemistry over physics going into sixth form but that switched after the first term. The GCSE content and teaching may not be the best indicator.

This is sounding too much like how my husband was when my son was deciding whether he was going to do A levels or go the apprentice route .

My husband was all , A levels are a must , then a degree . He was pushing him further and further away from it . My son and I talk things through and he was always not 100% on what it was he wanted to do when he left school .

Only when it was at the time of him sitting his exams did he mention about wanting to be an engineer! We were gobsmacked, where did that come from ? He's quiet , shy , you have to prise him out of his room . Doesn't know one end of a screwdriver to the other my husband said . He thought he would get an apprenticeship near home and happy days . Well it didn't work out like that .

Then finance came to him , he wanted to study finance but he needed a degree and that meant A levels . My husband went into overdrive . He was going to do
Maths , physics , IT, English , Computer science !
My son argued the case , my husband kept saying he needs good A levels , IT everyone needs ( he is in that field of work ) English my son wouldn't do as it's his poorest subject.

My husband and I fought and fought because I wasn't going to let him dictate to our son what A levels he had to do for 2 years just because my husband didn't get to do it .

Don't get me wrong my husband is successful and I know he wants the best for him but I know my son won't do well in subjects he doesn't want to do .

In the end he tried , physics , he got an A in GCSE but he just couldn't keep up so he was allowed to drop that and he took business instead

In the end he sat ;

Business He got A
Maths He got B
Environment science He got A
Finance He got A

He is now studying Finance at The London Institute of Banking and Finance University, London , his second year . He's doing really well getting exam results in his first year that would equate to a First if only they accounted for it .

The main thing is he is happy and I would argue with my husband all the time as long as my children are content in what they achieve .

@NameChangeyForThis
DD is a barrister and did the law conversion route. She did MFL at undergrad. You need to be able to learn a lot very quickly! He should do a degree in a traditional subject. Music is ok. A friend of DDs did music at Oxford. FM not necessary unless it really helps with his undergrad degree. Go to the best university he can as they apply for training positions (solicitor) to fund the conversion course. I’m out of date on these but others will know more about what is now required. However sim high and do a recognised intellectual degree.,

This is very interesting. Well I am a lawyer at a v high level (not boasting, just for context) and I think maths music chem and philosophy are brilliant a levels for that. Law is all about language, structured thought and ability to communicate complex ideas effectively and, often, simply. That wide variety of subjects shows both literacy and numeracy. Music is all about structured thought. I can’t tell you how many lawyers I know who are highly talented musicians - it would be quicker to name those who aren’t. I think the neural pathways set by a serious study of music also are well used in legal analysis.

what is really interesting if he does a chem/biochem/other scientific degree, that plus his music will make him highly attractive as an intellectual property lawyer. They need to wrestle with incredibly complex cutting edge chemistry in eg pharmaceutical patent infringement cases one minute, and eg analysing the process of composition of music in a copyright infringement action (eg the recent Ed Sheehan shape of you case v recently) the next. He would be fab across the board.

I would also say don’t do a law degree and convert afterwards. That’s the way I did it. But if he loves the idea of law (and doesn’t mind closing the IP door) he could do a law degree. He doesn’t need to decide now. But further maths wouldn’t help and it would probably be a hindrance. Better the discipline of philosophy, for law.

His current choices make him look like an excellent all rounder with a very versatile and curious mind and a willingness to think deeply.

I would absolutely encourage him to stuck with what he has chosen, and tell DH to take a chill pill.

There is nothing worse than a parent projecting his or her own insecurity and ambition onto a teenager, whether it's in sports or academic success. It is soul destroying for the kid.

This year with pre-release/advanced information, yes I would agree that RS had seemingly lesser content to learn than some other subjects (say A level Sociology) but in a 'normal' year? It's a lot of content to learn and remember over two years and requires synoptic links to achieve top grades.

In regards to whether he should do RS or Philosophy, I'd check the syllabus and what he liked about the GCSE in particular. Reason being is it may be the RS content / discussions he enjoyed...which won't be present on the Philosophy syllabus.

I agree with other posters that his options show a good mix and a good level of challenge. He should follow his gut.

I've read your update now. Sorry, I started writing my reply before reading it. I think he should stick with his original plans. But also consider going down to three if he isn't loving it! Just don't drop Maths if he can help it...

I'm going to mostly echo everyone else here. If these choices are based on your son's interests and those haven't changed, then your husband should stop being ridiculous and leave him alone! Reconsidering the basis of having dropped to an 8 in RS makes no sense at all. And even he wasn't sufficiently keen and motivated to do FM before, then why would he be now.

Having said that, IF you are really good at maths and interested in it, then doing Maths and FM is far less effort than doing 2 other A-levels (or at least it was 30 years ago...). Also, only Maths and Sciences tend to be "required" subjects for any degree courses (oh and languages for languages, in some cases). So if you are thinking in terms of "keeping options open" then they are the useful subjects. Do Music, RS if you love them, but not to keep options open. He could study RS/Philosophy or Music to degree level without A levels. Finally, you only need 3 A-levels, but it can be worth starting with 4 and dropping one if you really can't choose.

What does your son think? How does he feel about his choices? His future plans?

I'd consider Maths/Chemistry/Physics plus whichever he loves most of Philosophy/Music. Then see how he gets on. But I wouldn't push!

His choices sound fine to me if he doesn't want medicine.
He can easily do a chem degree with them and keep other options open.
My DS is doing Maths, Chem, bio and music. Music is by far the hardest. He is G8 too in piano and violin and absolutely loves the course. But he is thinking of dropping it in yr 13 due to time pressures. Ironically it prevents him practising his instruments and he would prefer to join more ensembles and develop his band (keyboard player) instead. His EPQ is in a medical area as he is trying to get a medical degree place otherwise he prob would have done a music based one. There are no AS levels offered at his school but the reference for UCAS can reference a fourth subject taken for a whole year.
He is predicted thre A stars in the sciences but an A in music. It's hard even for multi instrumentalists...
His school starts everyone on 4. Most drop to 3 at Xmas yr 12. Some carry-on for a full year. Very few take 4 and most of them have maths and FM

Part time job is a great thing in itself and will go on his UCAS application, if memory serves. But I stand by my statement that this is a hell of a workload, now known to be even more, and you say DS feels pressure? Please keep thinking.

Agree that given your further info Chem Eng is less likely to suit him. I had been wondering about Physics, silently, but only from that perspective.

We often see on this Board that fathers who believe that they made mistakes in their own early lives, and have become successful, are the ones with the strongest opinions about what their own DC should do. IMO their early experiences and the work they put into overcoming them may have created their ambition and their drive. DC who succumb to parental wishes they do not share are likely to shrivel, and with it these very qualities.

I also think it’s all very well saying let him decide but you really do not want to close down areas of future study because he doesn’t look at careers or what universities will require for some subjects. Not doing Physics closes lots of doors. Music keeps music open but nothing else. An essay subject is not a bad idea but it needs thought so it complements his science subjects.

Back in the day we had Arts and Science strands in 6th form. This was done to focus on career and talents. With some crossover of course but not three wholly different areas of study at A level.

His subject choices don’t seem to be heading anywhere. It is always helpful to try to focus on what degree he would like to do and work back from there, if possible.

BTW for practical purposes I am a research mathematician, and when I was in Admissions we got a surprising number of applications to my subject with Music ALs. I very much appreciate @Delphigirl ’s comment about the connection between Music and Maths.

My concern is with the cognitive load of two intense essay based ALs on top of the Maths he doesn’t love plus his primary subject. I think he is likely better placed for a Music EPQ than one in Philosophy, but the latter is also a possibility.

Your son has done brilliantly and worked hard.

Because of this he now has lots of options and life choices.

If he continues to do well he will continue to have great options in life.

Allow him the reward of his labours ie to be able to choose and follow his interests.

Your DH is being OTT.

Dd just finished her A Levels. She was an 8/9 student at GCSE. She did History, Psychology and RS.

Whilst RS and Philosophy are different, there’s a lot of crossover. Dd found RS by far the easiest of her subjects and got an A* without a huge amount of effort. There’s not so much content so I think if you’re bright and can write essays it’s a good option.

The grade boundaries are very high but dd thought she’d had a stinker of a second exam and still got the A*. She enjoyed the lessons and subject matter and I think it balanced out the other two which involved lots of learning content. So, as a counter balance to your ds’ other subjects I’d say Philosophy is ideal.

My dd changed her degree subject based on her AS level results. She got 100% in one subject, and of course her teachers and sixth form tutor were thrilled for her and made a big thing of it.

So basically she thought she'd better do this subject because she was obviously better at it (in her favoured subject she got a grade lower than she and her teacher expected).

She deeply regretted it. She got a first, but she didn't enjoy studying it at all, and it didn't really give her the same kind of 'in' into the careers she'd have chosen.

She's had to settle, basically. Now in her mid 30s she's in a job she does well, but it's far from what she wanted, and she's still regretful.

Let your DS decide.
Also P&E == RS; it’s likely to be well considered for a University place -shows a breadth of approach.

Of course they do! The OP's son is a high achiever with two Grade 8 instruments plus outstanding GCSE's. He could be Oxbridge or top uni material and if he's capable of doing 4 he absolutely should!

My brother did 5 A'levels (6 including General Studies). He got A is them all and got into Oxford and Harvard. Why should her son limit himself to 3 A'Levels if he's capable.

I agree with everyone that FM sounds not right for him. He is obviously an extremely talented musician and so unlike others I say he should keep music A level as he will love it and probably find it easy. I think his combination sounds great. Big overlaps between maths and music (which non-musicians don’t appreciate), philosophy and music, philosophy and maths, maths and chemistry.

My only suggestion is whether he might be interested in a technical musical career. If so show him the tonnmeister course at Surrey - an incredible way of getting into professional music - if he is interested in that he needs maths physics and music. No exceptions. In which case I would swap chemistry for physics.
www.surrey.ac.uk/undergraduate/music-and-sound-recording-tonmeister

list of alumni from this course doing amazing things in music
iosr.surrey.ac.uk/tonmeister/alumni.php

FM is by a distance the most difficult a level, I'd only ever recommend it with a view to studying a degree in which FM is at least advisory.

Hi, OP -

A lot of good advice here. ((BTW I did a long stint as a Russell Group STEM admissions tutor.) Of course I agree that the choice needs to belong to your DS.

As @PerpetualOptimist says, although the 4th AL may earn you a lower offer, it is never worth the risk of overwork or performing badly. The musician PP and perhaps others have pointed out that even with the experience and talent your DS has (earning a top grade at) the Music AL is a surprisingly tall order. IMO two problem based and two intense essay based ALs is very demanding and may become a source of stress.

Given the musical talents and interests of your DS, I wonder whether it might make sense for him to swap the Music AL for an EPQ? He could have more fun with that, and it will develop a different skill set very useful for uni. On a thread here a little while back, the OP said her DD’s selective school had surveyed unis and they preferred the EPQ. If you have questions you can contact admissions tutors directly.

Finally, Chemistry is a wonderful Choice. If your DS isn’t keen on Maths it might well be best. But I agree with @TizerorFizz that anyone thinking about Chemistry should also investigate Chemical Engineering. The differences in job opportunities, remuneration, etc as well as the essentials of the work could send him either way. Maybe don’t let your DH in on this!