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Original poster

Called a ''Social Parasite'' -- for sending DC to grammar

141 replies

Basherbasher · 23/08/2022 21:49

Ok, so long time lurker here. We live in a fully selective area (Kent) where around 25% of children go to the grammars, 10% go to independents, and 60-65% to the high schools (secondary moderns).

Up until fairly recently Kent had a couple of fully comprehensive schools, which were popular with left wing parents who did not support the 11+ system (St Simon Stock in Maidstone and Homewood Comp in Tenterden). SSS is a Christian school, Homewood a community comp drawing from a wide area. My family and friendship circle have always tended to favour these two comprehensives, shunning the grammars. Historically both schools would send pupils to Russell Group universities each year, with St Simon Stock even sending 3-4 pupils per year to Oxbridge colleges.

Anyway, we opted to send our DC to a Maidstone grammar school. But we could never have anticipated the animosity this has resulted in both towards us as parents and to our son. We have even been called 'social parasites' for our decision to send our child to a grammar.

My question is: is this accusation made against gs parents of being or acting like a 'social parasite' something which is a typically held view amongst parents who are supportive of comprehensive or community schools? Does anyone else feel guilty or a sense of shame for having sent their child to grammar school?

Things have become so bad and this is causing such a rift in the family that I am tempted to uproot DS from his grammar school and relocate over the border to Sussex (fully comprehensive area). To be clear this isn't an issue of jealousy or envy as many of our friends and family are professionals with highly able children who could have passed for the grammars. It is much more of a political issue in the sense that we are seen (as a family) as having behaved selfishly and snobbishly.

Thank you,

Basher

OP posts:
3peassuit · 23/08/2022 23:22

St Simon Stock is Catholic and many families still want their children to be brought up in the faith. Homewood is in Tenterden which is a fair distance from the nearest Grammar. It would be too far to travel for Maidstone DCs. The last offsted stated that Homewood required improvement.

Beamur · 23/08/2022 23:18

I live in an area with grammar schools. It's a decisive issue.
I'd prefer the system didn't exist but it does.
We decided to put DD in for the 11+ and see how she did. She did remarkably well..
She's now attending grammar school and on course for excellent grades. It's not without faults, but academically it has suited her perfectly.
I avoid getting into conversations about the school and DD's results unless it's with close friends or parents who have made similar decisions. One friend made a very scathing comment during a conversation about some minor grumble I was having (her child was then at the local comp, which is a good school)..as this child is now at a highly selective 6th form I wonder if her values have shifted.
I'm happy with sending my DD to a grammar. It's still a state school after all, just geared up to a cohort who are more academically inclined. The local comp is decent and actually has a more interesting range of GCSE's as it's a much bigger school. I get the impression that the high schools locally each have their own distinctive brand and beyond yr7 no one really cares that much. Local kids mix socially across the schools without any fuss.
Beyond the 11+ bearpit it's not a big deal.

Smilingwithfangs · 23/08/2022 23:17

mnistooaddictive · 23/08/2022 22:27

I wouldn’t be so rude as to say anything to your face but I would silently judge you. Testing at 11 to decide academic potential is wrong and unreliable. Labelling 65% of children as failures at age 11 is immoral. It’s your choice though.

They aren’t being labelled as failures are they? Just as less suited to a highly academic environment.

I say that as someone who has never lived in an area with grammar schools but it seems an odd comment

Agree 1 is very young to decide on academic potential.

anyway yes you have made your decision now you should stand by it and not uproot your kids because of your own discomfort.

Mardyface · 23/08/2022 23:15

I hate the grammar school system but it is absolutely disgraceful of people to criticize your choice in such a judgemental way. I hate faith schools too but I would never call people names for sending their kids there! It's not even like you're sending your kids over a border to a grammar school area, as happens in my area (and I don't judge because children should get the education they need as individuals). I am as left wing as they come but it is not achieving any left wing aims to pillory people for sending their kids to the school they see fit.

Original poster
Basherbasher · 23/08/2022 23:14

3peasuit, how do you explain then all the lefty parents who sent their children to St Simon Stock and to schools like Homewood over many years? And their good Oxbridge hit rate when (fully) comprehensive?

OP posts:
Mossstitch · 23/08/2022 23:13

You do whatever is best for your child!! I went to a grammar school from a poor background, I wasn't tutored. When I had my children I lived about a mile over the border from where that system was still in place, when I had my first baby I heard the children coming out of the local comp and swore

TopKnotch · 23/08/2022 23:12

The Kent system stinks.

We have a family member who narrowly missed out on the marks needed for grammar at 11+. She was then in the tricky position of being bright with few peers to bounce off in the secondary modern/high school. She wasn't put in for the higher papers for some GCSEs etc. It really limited her

Comprehensives are so much better imo. We love in a fully comp area and my DC are top sets and getting good teaching and stretch but have friends of all academic and other abilities including SEND. There are grammar schools within an hour journey from us but I genuinely don't understand the appeal and I really don't think any educational advantage is worth the long bus trips, lack of local friends and the divisions created.

3peassuit · 23/08/2022 23:10

Sadly, I don’t think there are enough Maidstone socialists to fill the local Costa. I think DH and I are probably the only Labour voters in our village and we sent our kids to the grammar.

Fleur405 · 23/08/2022 23:10

So I’m in Scotland where we don’t have grammar schools any longer and I’m always quite shocked that they still exist in England. But I think it’s completely unacceptable for someone to call you a parasite (of any sort) - they don’t agree with your choice, that’s fine but that language is just rude and abusive. The issue they have is with the system but you made what you felt was the best choice for your child within that system. They can campaign to change that system but personally attacking you is not reasonable.

Rinatinabina · 23/08/2022 23:10

Do these people live in naice areas where the catchment area is full of lovely middle class kids from expensive houses? I think when it comes to their own kids people are really very focussed on getting their kids the best education they can, that may be in grammar that may not. Diane Abbott and her private schooled son spring to mind.

Unless you have been vocally anti- grammar in the past I wouldn’t bat an eyelid tbh. There is a system, you have a limited number of options, you take the one that you think is best for your child. Don’t let it affect you, it’s absolutely none of their business. I really do hope they won’t be helping their children with deposits for housing or inheritances or using their connections to get their kids work experience or financially supporting their kids through uni etc. cos y’know unearned privilege and all that.

54321abcd · 23/08/2022 23:09

Basherbasher · 23/08/2022 23:02

Maidstone and The Weald is a Tory area, but there is also a significant Labour/Socialise minority who tended to send their children to the comprehensives, as did many of the STEP supporters and Labour councillors...

So what? Lots of people in 'Comprehensive' Sussex will use private schools instead because there are no Grammars and the Comps won't be 'leafy' everywhere....disruptive classes also exist in the better state schools.
Funnily enough it is quite common for people to moderate their views on the selective/private education issue when they have children of school age. A real child in front of you with real needs does wonders for focussing the mind. Even at my most left-wing, I could still understand why someone would do what seemed best for their child. It is normal for a parent to care more about their child than others' political prejudices. Your child gets one chance at their education.

Original poster
Basherbasher · 23/08/2022 23:02

I meant Socialist.

OP posts:
Original poster
Basherbasher · 23/08/2022 23:02

Maidstone and The Weald is a Tory area, but there is also a significant Labour/Socialise minority who tended to send their children to the comprehensives, as did many of the STEP supporters and Labour councillors...

OP posts:
54321abcd · 23/08/2022 23:00

3peassuit · 23/08/2022 22:57

The choice for you was a grammar, faith school or a secondary modern. You made the best choice for your child. Get better friends, the ones you describe sound judgemental and a wee bit hysterical.

This with bells on.

54321abcd · 23/08/2022 22:59

Basherbasher · 23/08/2022 22:51

It has historically been full on school warfare down here in Maidstone and Mid-Kent between the few comps and the grammars. Many STEP members, left-wing professional parents and Labour politicians in the area, have had a hugely influential effect on the politics of the area and the schools admissions processes. I would be grateful to hear from people in a similar position who had no choice other than to go for a selective school, or a secondary modern. As I said, today we have no comprehensive options available to us in this area. This was not always the case. We are in a very difficult position.

You are not in a difficult position unless your children cannot get into the selective school. A good parent does whatever is best for their individual child within their means at the time within whichever system they find themselves.
You can get into Oxbridge from a comp (I did) but I reckon I would have had to sit through far fewer disruptive classes en route in a selective Grammar School.

3peassuit · 23/08/2022 22:58

Also, what Labour politicians in Maidstone? The place is awash with Tories.

FluffMagnet · 23/08/2022 22:57

Wow - things have changed a lot if that is being thrown around now! I went to an Ashford Grammar, my sister went to Homewood and my mum taught there until she retired a decade ago. I never thought of Homewood as any different from any other non-selective, other than it managed to create a much better press about itself than may have been warranted (and it used to have a Chair of Governors who was so anti-11+ that he just came across as slightly unhinged in the local paper). "Back in the day" SSS was only accessible to Catholics (and a Greek Orthodox family I knew) with a letter from their priests! Keep your DS in grammar if he is happy there and ignore other's views. Different schools suit different students, and if he is naturally academic, grammar would be the natural choice. It doesn't make any other student a failure for not gaining entry, as academia is far from the only measure of success or attainment.

imnotthatkindofmum · 23/08/2022 22:57

There's no grammar schools in my area, if there were i would definitely have prepared my children for 11+ why wouldn't you seek the best education your child can get?

On the flip side I didn't have to make the choice so I was able to choose a secondary on other merits.

In an area with grammar schools the best education for bright kids will be grammar school so it's a no brainer to me.

I totally get the objection to testing at 11 but while grammar schools exist then people will do it to maximise opportunities for their kids 🤷🏻‍♀️

3peassuit · 23/08/2022 22:57

The choice for you was a grammar, faith school or a secondary modern. You made the best choice for your child. Get better friends, the ones you describe sound judgemental and a wee bit hysterical.

ZenNudist · 23/08/2022 22:53

carefullycourageous · 23/08/2022 22:42

I do not agree with grammar schools. I would not use the term social parasite but I think grammar schools are wrong. I just feel extremely lucky to live in a comprehensive area.

I can not say with certainty if I would move out of a grammar area if I loved the area or had family ties, but I would definitely not want to move to a grammar area and feel so grateful not to be part of what is a truly dreadful system.

I do judge parents who send their kids to grammars, if I am honest. I think people who are happy to benefit from a corrupt/dysfunctional system have some culpability for its continuation and the harm it causes.

It's attitudes like this that baffle me. I live in a grammar area. I didn't move here for the schools. I moved here for the affordable house prices, then I had dc and 10 years later had the ball ache of tutoring etc. I'm close to Manchester City centre and house prices are now extortionate. I can't afford to move. Nor would I want to. So I fit in with the school system here. Not sure why that makes me worthy of judgement.

Original poster
Basherbasher · 23/08/2022 22:51

It has historically been full on school warfare down here in Maidstone and Mid-Kent between the few comps and the grammars. Many STEP members, left-wing professional parents and Labour politicians in the area, have had a hugely influential effect on the politics of the area and the schools admissions processes. I would be grateful to hear from people in a similar position who had no choice other than to go for a selective school, or a secondary modern. As I said, today we have no comprehensive options available to us in this area. This was not always the case. We are in a very difficult position.

OP posts:
Jellybellyjiggle · 23/08/2022 22:49

I went to a grammar school in Kent and was neither coached or tutored, nor privileged. I was one of the few girls that went there who lived on a council estate. Would I do the same for my kids? No (in Sussex now) but would I have wanted to be uprooted and moved because of other people's opinions? Absolutely not.

ZenNudist · 23/08/2022 22:45

Forget it. Dont move him. How strange. I live in a left wing grammar area. We all just crack on with things without judging. My ds is going to a grammar school but everyone has been lovely about it and congratulated him for doing well.

We have good non grammar schools here so maybe people don't need to be bitter or jealous because they are secure in their choices for their dc.

I would not be friends with such rude people. Ice them out. As for family just agree to disagree and say that you aren't about to start telling them how to live their lives and you'd thank them for keeping their thoughts to themselves from now on.

Dilbertian · 23/08/2022 22:45

Says more about the characters of the people being judgemental than about yours.

My opinion? All my dc are at or went to the local comprehensive, despite us being in a grammar area and two of my dc definitely having the ability to go to grammar. But we felt the comp was a far better fit for them than the grammars. End of. You chose the school you felt best for your dc. End of.

It's daft to insist that everyone have identical education. We need plumbers as well as surgeons. The disappointment or hurt a child might feel upon not getting a grammar place reflects their parents' attitudes and parenting. It does not label them a 'failure' unless the parents present it that way.

No doubt your friends would judge me for deliberately moving to an area with good comprehensives.

Juicesausagecake · 23/08/2022 22:44

If it wasn’t this, they would judge you on something else. You won’t be able to vindicate yourselves no matter what you do, so just make sure they know that you don’t care (… and then make sure that you stop caring yourself). You haven’t done anything wrong. Enjoy the school and good luck to your dc.

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