How do Asians and East Europeans e.g. manages to successfully to get their kids to revise long hours?

I completely resonate with your thoughts. I do get a lot of 'feedback' that I'm not equipping them with the necessary skills for today's world. I disagree. They are not passive observers of life, they are engaged and kind and curious human beings.

The academics are to ensure that they understand that any future achievements, professional or not, require dedication. If they don't know how to apply themselves in order to get their desired result, how will they ever be self motivators?

Btw i also think that there is a huge spectrum there.
You have to SE attitude that nothing is good enough etc… which puts a heck of a lot of pressure on students. And yes you end up with tales of young people committing suicide etc,.. that’s always the cases that are brought to love that expecting children to work hard and revise (on their own) can’t be an acceptable thing to do.

But the opposite of that shouldnt be letting young people/children do whatever they want. Children aren’t learning that hard work will allow them to learn unless they are guided and made to do homework and see the result of it.
Children won’t learn to make some effort and to appreciate efforts if they are taught the value of effort.

Thats very different from saying that one must attain perfect results etc… it’s expecting children to do the best they can, having worked hard for it. Which is totally different than doing something having put little effort into it.

I too was that kind of child but my environment wasn't nurturing.

I don't ever force a 'results' mentality on my children. I praise beyond praise their absolute efforts. I ensure that they're bonded and connected so they're actually quite a tight little unit. I make sure we eat at least one meal a day together. We talk about EVERYTHING. So much so that in my typically Indian household, my eldest child came out as gay to me and did not hesitate when telling me. I am very bonded to my children and that doesn't mean I get it a right, it just means I try a lot. I've surrounded them with books, debate, I've embraced controversy and ensured we are not an ignorant family. I've instilled respect of self and others in them and I've really worked my arse off to nurture their emotional growth.
They all know, whatever path they choose, so long as they are not causing harm, I will love and support them.

I truly believe talking to your children is key, they're never too young. I feel for teens and pre-teens that feel utterly stuck about any sort of path for their future because, no one has had that conversation with them.

I also firmly believe that SM and excessive tech have not been a gift to our world. Instant gratification is not a good thing. Comparison is even worse.

Also a lot of the Asian heritage children are from immigrants to the UK originally and probably their parents and/or grandparents experienced severe racism.

Working hard to become a doctor, an accountant or a solicitor offered you a way out of low menial paid jobs and potentially also the racist slander. It hasn't gone away completely but I'm sure having a top class education helps earn respect.

There's a saying about "you can take everything from me, but you can't take my education".

If you're kids aren't working it's because they don't see the value in good grades and the life that it leads to.

Show them what's on offer with good grades. Top grades. Visit Oxbridge perhaps? I never saw it. If i had, I would have worked much harder. I had no idea that was on offer. You don't know what you don't know. So inspire rather than provide fear.

So teach them, help them understand. The difference with Asian/E European is that they come from a life of difficulty and money and status are a way out of that.

White privilege gives you implied "status" in your own country already... Money, well, there's always Mum and Dad :)

@Whitedamask If we lived near it my DD with an EHCP would be going. Their way of teaching is much easier for most SN kids to follow. All kids deserve people to believe in them and having high aspirations for them, regardless of SEN or what type of family they come from.
Severity of need is a whole different subject. The woeful amount of SEN schools is to blame for this and the level of high SEN in mainstream schools is not sustainable.

1- it starts very early in, when they are in reception
2- the work ethics is strong and they are told repeatedly that they have to revise through their years at school. Exam or not, they will do revisions, exercises etc…
3- when they arrive at GCSE or A levels, it’s so engrained they do it on their own.

At least that’s how I have been raised (European here).
I’ll be honest, with two dcs born and raised in the U.K., I thought that maybe I was over the top and I needed to chill out. So my dcs have done all the homework, always. But I’ve never ousted them to do them perfectly or to do more etc… It’s a big regret if mine because one of them has missed learning that hard work pays and isn’t something to look down upon. That it’s normal to work hard to get where you want. It’s not supposed to just land on his lap (which it has so far because he is able).

Absolutely. My son was at university and had a Chinese student on his course. The student left a finals exam and went up to the roof of the business school and jumped off. Before he left the exam hall he told them he didn't think he had done well enough for his parents.

@worriedatthistime Of course it's not. Not all children are forced to study 10 hours a day. A culture of hard work doesn't equal that. Lots of people commit suicide as adults and feel completely underprepared and overwhelmed by how harsh the world is.
I just think there are a lot of ways to mess up your child and equally a million and 1 reasons why people commit suicide.

100% that sentence about the teachers failing rather than the students! IMO our kids need more opportunities to fail, and actually take responsibility for that failure, all the way through school.

I will never understand the hatred schools like Michaela get where this is exactly the culture they try to surround their students in. But maybe I'm just a child of immigrants.

I don't understand it either. Michaela operate a zero tolerance policy on behaviour, and pupils know they are expected to work. I believe the school also gives advice to parents, such as, 'your child should be in bed by x o'clock, up at y o'clock and have clean pants and socks every day.

I think a lot of UK parents would resent this kind of advice, but there are many parents who really want a place for their child.

They also get excellent academic results. More schools should follow suit, but as soon as you say that, you get, 'my child with SN wouldn't cope there.' But I believe they do cater for SN children, with the emphasis on the children attaining their potential, whereas in mainstream schools, they are sometimes excused the work on the basis of their SN.

Obviously this does depend on the level of SN.

IMO @MolliciousIntent is spot on.

I have a SiL of one of these ethnicities (not in the U.K.) who was always extremely strict with her dcs. Music practice was done before school and if they played a wrong note she whacked them with a cane. 😱

The culture is very success-focused, and anything short of top grades is considered a failure. A niece who got very respectable A level grades - not straight As but good enough for a Russell Group university, only had local comments like, ‘Oh, dear,’ or ‘Never mind’ - poor girl - until she was congratulated by me and dh.

People who manage to get their children to study hard don't care about being their kids' best friend, they don't care if the kids think they're being unreasonable. Also, the parents have zero self-doubt as to whether they're doing the right thing.

@Meadowbreeze and its not evil to be the other way either
Not every child is academic no matter what
Many assume their children are happy and have a good childhood etc , many kids claim different when an adult though and thats not necessarily parents fault as often you doing what you think is right at the time
People should just do whats right for their families without back handed putting another families style down
Money and success does not always buy happiness either

@IsThisRealLife12 You've just perfectly described a household where the culture is academic achievement and hard work. It's nothing evil. Surrounding your child with love and the ability to be creative and successful isn't horrible. Older siblings setting a good example isn't evil. Not introducing your children to time wasting devices isn't mean. But people do and than ask how, how is your child doing so well at school.

I will never understand the hatred schools like Michaela get where this is exactly the culture they try to surround their students in. But maybe I'm just a child of immigrants.

@deplorabelle in my home country (I am from SE Asia), it is the norm for children to study for long hours. When I was growing up, I had 4 exams every year starting from age 6/7. My mum used to buy stacks of exam papers from at least 10 primary schools. On top of the 10 hours I spent on homework, and 10 hours i spent in tuition classes every week (my grandfather ferried me to different tuition centres and had his own timetable), I had to complete these test papers. My mum would mark all of them after she came home from work at 11 pm and wake me up at 5 am to go through my mistakes. I had to redo them if I failed to get a high mark. When I grew older and came to the age when I would take GCSEs, this got taken to a more extreme degree. There was something called ten year series, we had to complete all test papers for 10 subjects created in the last 10 years and achieve a good score on all of them or we had to redo them. This was the bare minimum. My home country is no 1 in maths and science in the world and I guess this is why. Hard core rote learning.

I am terrible at maths, but I got As in maths for national exams- GCSEs and IB. I was quite a stupid child but I got into a RG university to read law. This was considered a subpar performance. my IB score was 42 points (entry score to get into oxbridge is 38-40) but this was average in my school. I basically don't know anyone from my school who would not get into a RG university in a UK context.

I’m white but from a family with a similar culture/work ethic. Education was hugely important, we never questioned our parents and we’re expected to work hard. Mum sat with each of us for an hour or so after school in primary school making sure we knew our times tables, general knowledge etc. We were coached for the 11+ for years in advance through mum buying past papers.

Although from a working class family in a poor area, I have a first from Oxford. All my siblings went to good universities and did well. We have good relationships and respect for our parents.

However, I haven’t been able to replicate that with my kids as they live in a softer culture, and they have less fear of failure. Although they are ‘privileged’, I expect that kids from much more humble backgrounds will do better as they want it more/work harder.

The post from IsThisRealLife is really interesting to me because I was that kind of DC and so was my DH. But we increasingly find our students aren't like that at all.

@ComefromawayI don't think that's a reason to not push. People commit suicide for all sorts of reasons. This can be done in a loving way.

Don't get me wrong: I wasn't scared of my mum. But I knew I always wanted to go to university and then do well in life, so to not do well academically did not fit in with my plans. Plans I 'formed' in middle school. Today I run my own company and am very wealthy even among my group of wealthy friends. I think much of that is down to not entertaining the idea of failing, at all.

It's to do with the consequences of failure, isn't it? If they're severe, you're going to get your head down (although a few will rebel or become depressed, especially if the course of study is a poor match for their interests and abilities).

If the consequences aren't that severe, see: retakes/clearing/adjustment/access courses/apprenticeships/years out (e.g. most qualifications aren't one shot in this country), you may slack off.

As a teacher, I fear many students are consciously or unconsciously absorbing that if they fail, the person in the most trouble will be the teacher!

What utter claptrap.

I'm a UK born Indian with 3 children. I have never, ever demanded 'absolute obedience with harsh consequences' and yet all 3 of my children are high academic achievers who do not ever need to be forced to study or revise.

My eldest has her heart set on studying languages with politics at Exeter University. She is 14 and I have never forced any path on her. She goes to a state school and achieves top marks in all her subjects. She study's a lot in her spare time.

My middle child is working through extra study in order to sit an entrance exam for a grammar school this summer. Again, totally DC choice, DC wants to go to a different school to older DC.
DC is studying for mock exams and has been doing all of this academic year and spent year 4 doing extra studies for prep. Child is 10.

My youngest is 8 and is already looking at the entrance exam for grammar. Said child studies at home be it extra spellings or maths. Again, never ever forced.

They have all been raised with the same care, love and devotion.
They have zero interest in SM, because I haven't ever used it. If eldest wants to, she can but she'd rather read.

They do not game. Again, it isn't something I've ever done and so they're not fussed. I have said repeatedly that if they want to they can, all 3 think it's boring but they will spend hours and hours playing the piano, making a mess with creative pastimes and talking!

We have always been a very communicative household. We talk about everything including what choices they have in life. They can achieve whatever they want but THEY MUST work for it.

They are not suppressed unhappy children whatsoever.

@summermode That doesn't really show much to be honest. It's helpful but 'white other' is a massive group. It could include Polish and Italian who have very different views on this subject.
I am glad though that we've started to accept culture plays a massive massive part. That's mainly what parents in independent schools pay for.
There was loads of money poured into closing the attainment gap of black boys, they dug into it and realised it was black Carribbean boys that needed more support. There is a really interesting interview about this which I can't find.