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Original poster

Secondary admission appeal help please

31 replies

sleepingbeauty100154 · 07/03/2022 16:53

Hi, I've had a read through lots of threads on here about secondary school appeals and I apologise for adding to them but just in need of some advice.
My daughter has been offered second choice secondary school. We missed 1st choice by 40m and have since found out we are currently 4th on the waiting list. I haven't yet asked if the school waiting list gets much movement so not sure if 4th is good or not!

So I'm looking at appealing and here are my reasons.
I know normally distance isn't taken into account, however #1 is closer and the bus stops directly outside the school or a 15 min walk. #2 school is a 10 minute walk to bus stop either end or a 30 min walk. This is important for us as my daughter has a complex cardiac condition and can get exhausted - especially after a day at school. She is generally good and knows her own limits but I'd like her to be independent and get to/ from school on her own and enjoy her day without the tiredness. Also on this note, while both schools do not have their own sports grounds (they both use independent grounds), #1 uses a minibus to transport the students to and from the fields, whereas #2 walk there and back (no other option) which is 22 minutes each way. That plus a double pe lesson would leave my daughter very fatigued for the rest of the day and possibly the following day. .I would like her to be able to join in just like the other students but fear this wouldn't happen often at #2.

The other reason which may seem silly to some is that my daughter had her heart set on studying textiles (her older sister did this and she's fallen in love with all things textiles! Even asking for and getting her own sewing machine for Christmas!) #1 offers textiles from year 7 to A Level, yet #2 doesn't even offer it at all. This is something my daughter is extremely upset about but not sure if it's worth mentioning?

Other thing to mention but probably not important is that #1 is single sex school, coed 6th form and #2 is coed school, no 6th form. My daughter desperately wanted single sex school. She spent Yr 5 being tormented by a boy in her class and that boy has now been offered a place at #2.....

Any thoughts on if it's worth appealing?

I was originally going to apply under their medical/ social criteria but at the time I was caring for my mum who was losing a very sudden and nasty battle against cancer (she passed on Nov 1st). I was in such a state that I ended up applying on 22nd October under sibling criteria, forgetting that year 13 doesn't count for siblings (my own fault).

I can gather the obvious medical details of her heart condition - she will be requiring more surgery soon and her current primary school is writing a supporting letter stating they also feel #1 is better suited to her needs.

Any help from anyone would be really appreciated!

Thanks x

OP posts:
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Playdoughcaterpillar · 28/03/2022 21:49

Yay! Good for you. Brilliant outcome

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 17/03/2022 15:10

Good news :) You must be very relieved!

prh47bridge · 17/03/2022 15:08

That's great news.

Original poster
sleepingbeauty100154 · 17/03/2022 14:21

Just wanted to update for anyone who is interested.
Was getting ready to send off all the paperwork for appeal this morning, when an email came through offering my daughter a place at school #1!! I'm assuming being 4th on the waiting list was a good thing.

Also wanted to say thank you so much for all the advice etc. I really feel if I did have to go to an appeal I was in a good frame of mind and that the advice I got from here was excellent, I felt prepared and full of knowledge. Really appreciate it :)

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 15/03/2022 09:40

The policy is less important than what happens in practice, but you can use the policy to throw light on that. You need to relate it to your daughter's needs, so what does school #1's policy show that it offers your daughter that #2's policy doesn't. The panel will only see the policies if you include them as evidence.

If you PM me I'll be happy to take a look at the letter from the primary school.

Original poster
sleepingbeauty100154 · 15/03/2022 09:19

Sorry for another question (or 2) but I've thrown myself into this appeal. Firstly, I understand that you are appealing FOR the school rather than against the allocated school, however is this the case if I am comparing the medical needs policies of both schools? Not sure how to word it but school #2 medical policy for anything that concerns my daughter is less than 1 paragraph, whereas school #1 policy is lengthy and in depth description. Will the panel have access to both policies?

Secondly, if I upload the letter that the primary school has written, can someone have a look and tell me what they think? I'm unsure if it's too "personal"?

Thanks (again) in advance.... just trying to be organised!

OP posts:
PanelChair · 09/03/2022 22:48

The bulge class is not good news - it will add to the school’s argument that they can’t take additional pupils - but neither is it disastrous. You still have sound arguments around her health needs and the curriculum, so press on.

prh47bridge · 09/03/2022 20:12

If capacity is 1000 but they only have 911 pupils on roll there is plenty of room for additional pupils. Don't give up. You have a good case.

Treecreature · 09/03/2022 19:21

40m as in distance? I had a friend who's kid was turned down to move primary school due to distance (Our council uses shortest walking distance, not as the crow flies). They used Google maps to calculate it but the route went all the way around his estate. My friend proved how the distance was much shorter as he left through the back door, through the back gate and used the estates internal paths. It worked for him.

Perfect28 · 09/03/2022 19:16

I genuinely can't believe that a school make a class walk 22minutes in each direction to get to a pe lesson?! Also you definitely should challenge the single sex thing. She got harrased by one boy, not all boys.

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 09/03/2022 19:08

At least one of the experts on here has said you've got the makings of a strong case. Even if the LA have a strong case, you can still persuade the panel that yours is stronger. You just have to make sure the panel have enough information to understand. Don't give up. I won our appeal with help from an expert on here.

Original poster
sleepingbeauty100154 · 09/03/2022 18:56

Just to add, government website states the schools capacity is 1000, and pupils on roll is 911

OP posts:
Original poster
sleepingbeauty100154 · 09/03/2022 18:54

Feeling disheartened tonight.... found out that last year, school #1 took on a bulge class and is now therefore pretty much at capacity. That's what they will use in the appeal isn't it? Not much chance I can argue with that is there??? Think I'm holding onto a miracle here :(

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 09/03/2022 18:13

A supporting letter from the primary school can help if they are expressing their professional opinion about your daughter's need for this school. However, a letter simply saying they support you won't help.

It is true that some appeal panels won't accept letters from the primary school due to misunderstanding the Appeals Code. Paragraph 2.13 prohibits school representatives from supporting individual appeals but only for places at their school. It doesn't stop them from supporting appeals for other schools.

Having said that, evidence from medical professionals will carry more weight. You want them to be clear that they are expressing their professional opinion, not simply echoing your views.

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 09/03/2022 15:51

We included a letter from primary stating why they felt our preferred school was the only suitable school. It was short and to the point. It was certainly allowed but I don't know how big a part it played in convincing the panel. The consultant's letter was the most important.

Mumdiva99 · 09/03/2022 14:31

Yes get a letter from the school. Ask them to lost some of the adjustments they make for her, their experience of extra exertion and why they think the local school is more suitable. You submit all your evidence in advance and the panel consider it even if they don't specifically ask about it.

Playdoughcaterpillar · 09/03/2022 13:58

I would have thought the letter from your specialist most useful and sounds likely you should win appeal but also at 4th it would also seem fairly likely you are offered a place soon anyway. Good luck OP. Don't forget to come back and update us!

Original poster
sleepingbeauty100154 · 09/03/2022 13:55

Thanks for everyone's input. I have another question if that's OK......
My daughters current primary school have offered to write a supporting letter in anyway they can, but I've read that this may not be helpful or even accepted at appeal.

Is there anyone that can say whether I should get this letter and if so, what should they write about? Should they say about how my daughter copes at school currently? Should they name the school that I'm appealing to or just remain impartial sort of thing?

I'm trying to gather as much as possible but I don't want to do anything that may jeopardise the appeal!

Thanks again :)

OP posts:
Mumdiva99 · 08/03/2022 11:46

You used to be able to download all the school census data - which would tell you how many kids in each year at the school. From that you can show if a precedent has been set of going over class sizes.

But the medical info sounds enough.

PanelChair · 08/03/2022 11:37

No, it just means they admit up to PAN (as they are supposed to) and then may have to admit additional pupils on appeal.

Ask them for the actual numbers in each year group, because it will help your argument if any year group is above PAN. The school’s case will always be a version of “we couldn’t possibly cope if we went above PAN”, but you can chip away at that if the numbers show they’re already coping above PAN in other year groups. (This is actually more useful information than the number of appeals won and lost, because each appeal turns on its own facts, so somebody winning their appeal tells you very little about whether you might win yours).

EduCated · 08/03/2022 11:26

Tbh sounds like they’re being deliberately vague! Ask for the current number of students in each year group - you’re looking for any year group currently that is over 120.

Original poster
sleepingbeauty100154 · 08/03/2022 11:21

@clarrylove

Do they normally take over PAN? You may find they regularly do in which you should have a strong case. Good luck with the waiting list and appeal.
I asked today and their reply was : "each year we admit 120 students in accordance to our PAN" Does this mean that either no one ever appeals or that appeals are never ever won?!
OP posts:
LightBulbous · 07/03/2022 21:16

@Bessica1970

I wouldn’t mention the textiles or single sex reasons - neither are appeal worthy, they also detract from your main argument (medical) which is strong on its own. Gather as much evidence as you can, and good luck 🤞
I work in admissions and the textiles thing is absolutely something that could help build a strong case. We’ve had successful appeals join us on similar grounds. It should definitely be included.
Imitatingdory · 07/03/2022 20:55

If your appeal is unsuccessful ask the LA about school transport.

PanelChair · 07/03/2022 19:39

No! The textiles point is very appeal-worthy if OP’s child has a demonstrable interest in studying textiles and it’s not available elsewhere. Curriculum provision is one of the areas in which parents can argue that their child’s need for a place outweighs the school’s need not to increase pupil numbers.