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DD didn't get into any of our school preferences - any options?

86 replies

HannahTone · 03/03/2022 11:05

We live in an area with really low performing schools, so after having checked the preferences list and admission criteria, we put the further schools as our top 3 choices because we really did not want DD to end up into one of the school nearby, as we heard lots of nasty rumours about them, but then added them in the last 3 choices just so if nothing else, she does get accepted into the more reasonable ones near our house.

However, on offer day, we got rejected out of all our preferences and DD got put into one of the most low performing schools which are even further away than the nearby school I put in number 4.

Now, I just contacted the council and the lady was really rude and just told me to wait till 21st March when the waiting lists will be out and that she will be put on waiting lists for all 6 schools, but given higher preference for the first school. I'm not even sure she knew what she was talking about tbh, but realistically I dont think she'll get the 1st school choice, so I was thinking of getting her to higher preference to the more reasonable school near to us, but I dont know if I can do that?

Has anyone been in a similar situation, do you think I could do that, or does that seem like an impossible thing to do? Please help a struggling mum!

OP posts:
titchy · 03/03/2022 18:48

@Lily737

You can't compare how far your dd's friends live from the school as that's not how it works. For them they could have put the school as their first choice. The way it is done is that all who put a school as their first choice are ranked and the number of places they have are given out to the same number of children in order of ranking. Then the ones who dont get in are looked at by the second school and so on. Each school takes children in the same way so a child who has the school listed 4th will be "overtaken" by those who place it higher. Hence the need to order your choices with care. (This isn't not how it literally happens if course - the computer works it out. The schools just wait for their pupil lists.)
No that's really not the way it works at all. Equal preference means it doesn't matter whether you put a school first or sixth - if you are in the top ranked 120 or whatever who applied you get a place.
Riverlee · 03/03/2022 18:46

Can you appeal for one of the preferred schools? Check the schools appeal procedure. Then you need to put a case together as to why you want your dc to go to that school. Eg. Dc is musical and school has a good music departmentvetc

Lily737 · 03/03/2022 18:46

You can't compare how far your dd's friends live from the school as that's not how it works. For them they could have put the school as their first choice. The way it is done is that all who put a school as their first choice are ranked and the number of places they have are given out to the same number of children in order of ranking. Then the ones who dont get in are looked at by the second school and so on. Each school takes children in the same way so a child who has the school listed 4th will be "overtaken" by those who place it higher. Hence the need to order your choices with care. (This isn't not how it literally happens if course - the computer works it out. The schools just wait for their pupil lists.)

Jijithecat · 03/03/2022 18:39

OP have you read the secondary schools admissions process on your county council website? It should detail the admissions criteria for schools, have a distance calculator and show you how places were allocated in previous years.

Crockof · 03/03/2022 18:25

Can you find the admission allocation of the schools you have been refused. Lots of councils post a chart like this. If you wish to pm me I can have a look if you'd like, if I can find a chart you can then know why you weren't offered a place.

DD didn't get into any of our school preferences - any options?
LadyLazarus40 · 03/03/2022 18:21

Have you read the admissions policy for each school you applied to? It will state in detail how places are allocated. Eg it will show priority prob something like this: 1. Children in care 2. Catchment siblings 3. Catchment by distance 4. Distance. Then be clear what category you fall into eg are you catchment or not.

You then need to cross reference this with the details given by your council for each school showing how they allocated places. This will allow you to see if a mistake has been made.

If however they only offered to say catchment up to 0.5 mikes and you are catchment 0.6 miles you will not get a place. Similarly if they only offered in catchment and you live out of catchment then no place.

It works on an equal preference so you will be offered your highest placed school which you meet the admissions criteria for. If you do not meet the admissions criteria for any of the schools you listed then you will be offered the closest school which has a place (which it sounds like is the case with you).

Soontobe60 · 03/03/2022 18:18

OP, I think you’ll find that most schools have kids that sometimes fight!

boyblue · 03/03/2022 18:10

Get on the wait lists for any schools you prefer. I suspect you'll get a wait list place by the summer

Soontobe60 · 03/03/2022 18:07

@Ozanj

Social and medical reasons are the only things that count when you apply for schools that aren’t in your catchment area. You should only be choosing further away schools if you can justify it eg her existing friends / relatives go there or if she has a deathly allergy to something common & the new school is on the doorstep to an A&E.

Also, lower performing schools tend to have more current ratings and so may be performing at a higher level than so called Outstanding schools who haven’t had an Ofsted rating in 10 years. This needs to be kept firmly in mind especially considering Ofsted’s recent crackdown on outstanding schools.

No, social reasons are not valid reasons for getting a particular school. Many schools don’t have a catchment area as such.
ChicCroissant · 03/03/2022 18:00

I did get a letter when my child didn't get their first preference, it did arrive a day or so later than the online portal showing the result but it did state in writing the reason for not being offered that school.

The waiting list procedures vary a bit between councils but I know you've already spoken to them about that and sorted it out. There can be some movement while people accept places and after that you'll get an idea of your position on the waiting list.

Good luck OP, it is a stressful time. I hope a place at the right school for your DD is sorted soon, you just want to know for definite where they'll be going Flowers

PatriciaHolm · 03/03/2022 17:45

You can add yourself to waiting lists for other schools, yes.

In terms of detail as to why you didn't get the other places, that will probably come in a letter in the next few days hopefully.

HannahTone · 03/03/2022 17:23

Thank you so much for your replies. I'm new to this site, so I'm not really sure how to reply to everyone, but I've made notes on the things you've mentioned, and will definitely ring the council and the schools first thing tomorrow morning.

Again, I'm not sure where I'm going wrong with this, but some of DD's classmates do live in close proximity to us and still got their place, so it really did make me think whether I put her at a disadvantage by putting the choice as the 4th option, but it seems I haven't.

I was also wondering if it was possible for us to put DD into the nearby schools which we did not put as our preferred choices? We have another school that is at 0.7 miles away from us, so could we just try and put her in that waiting list?

I just want to try everything I can for her not to go in her offered place because I've just gone away and researched and saw some really bad news about fights going on around the school, and I want to try to void that for DD as much as possible!

@prh47bridge
We actually know nothing about why we weren't given our choices, I'm not sure whether I should be checking my emails or posts, but we haven't got any information as of yet which seems very odd to me.

OP posts:
ChicCroissant · 03/03/2022 13:45

@Comefromaway

As for your DD's classmates, maybe they put that school higher up their forms, say second or third option rather than fourth (if it wasn't their first option).

This is what we were commenting on Chic. The OP's dd's classmates putting the school 2nd on their list didn't mean they got a place above anyone like OP who put it 4th. The only reason they potentially got places was if they live closer (or fulfilled other admisisons criteria)

Yes, you have to meet the admissions criteria to be offered a place at the school and your preference order doesn't affect that part. If more than one school offers a place, the Admissions Office will use the preference list then, after the offer of a school place.

So I don't think the admissions office were saying they would push her up the list for school number one, just that it would remain her first preference as it was on her application.

I can guess where the OP lives due to the number of schools so close to her and it can be really hard to find a school.

FWIW, my own child didn't get their first preference but got the second - it was further away than the first and we'd have got a place there previously but that year there were a lot of applicants who lived closer. We failed at appeal as well. The school my child got is now the one that is vastly oversubscribed in the area with people chasing places, it's hard to see the way it all works sometimes and I have every sympathy to those going through it this year!

prh47bridge · 03/03/2022 13:40

Your order of preferences makes no difference to your position on the waiting lists. There is, therefore, no point changing your order.

The council is required to tell you why you didn't get a place at any of your preferred schools and tell you how to appeal. If you haven't had that information yet, it should arrive shortly. If you still haven't got it by the end of the week, you should chase them.

Once you get that information, you can check that they have put your daughter into the correct admission category for each school and that the home to school distance looks right. If either of these is wrong, it suggests a mistake has been made and you should take it up with the council, although they may insist that you appeal even if it is clear that there has been a mistake.

Even if there hasn't been a mistake, you can appeal for as many of the schools you applied for as you want. Note that you can't win an appeal on the basis of the allocated school being low performing and wanting a better one. You need to show specific things that the appeal school offers that are not available at the allocated school and are relevant to your daughter..

ufucoffee · 03/03/2022 13:25

@Ozanj

Social and medical reasons are the only things that count when you apply for schools that aren’t in your catchment area. You should only be choosing further away schools if you can justify it eg her existing friends / relatives go there or if she has a deathly allergy to something common & the new school is on the doorstep to an A&E.

Also, lower performing schools tend to have more current ratings and so may be performing at a higher level than so called Outstanding schools who haven’t had an Ofsted rating in 10 years. This needs to be kept firmly in mind especially considering Ofsted’s recent crackdown on outstanding schools.

Not always. They aren't taken into consideration where I live.
Comefromaway · 03/03/2022 13:22

As for your DD's classmates, maybe they put that school higher up their forms, say second or third option rather than fourth (if it wasn't their first option).

This is what we were commenting on Chic. The OP's dd's classmates putting the school 2nd on their list didn't mean they got a place above anyone like OP who put it 4th. The only reason they potentially got places was if they live closer (or fulfilled other admisisons criteria)

clary · 03/03/2022 13:22

Yes, but she listed choice 4 and others have a place there- it will be because they live nearer, not bc they put it higher on their list, as your post implied. Apologies if you knew that - didn't want the op to think she had done badly by listing it 4th.

ChicCroissant · 03/03/2022 13:19

I think you've misunderstood me - if you have six preferences and get offers from 4 schools (say numbers 2,3,5 & 6) you'll get school number two as it was your highest preference.

I don't think the OP got offers from any of the schools on her list, that's why she was placed at one that she hadn't included.

ChildOfFriday · 03/03/2022 13:09

@ChicCroissant

By 'higher preference' I think they just mean that was your first choice - say you can put down 5 school on the form and you get offers from 4 of them, the Council will put you down for the school that was highest on your form.

As for your DD's classmates, maybe they put that school higher up their forms, say second or third option rather than fourth (if it wasn't their first option).

See if your council has the admissions day statistics on their website which will give you the numbers from last year - ours shows the number of first preferences for each school and the total number of preferences.

As others have said, putting a school higher up on your form does not give you priority over others who listed it lower. This is a very common misconception but is completely wrong. The system has been equal preference for many years across England now.

@HannahTone You didn't disadvantage your DC by listing closer schools lower down your list. This will not be the reason that you didn't get a place at your 4th choice.

clary · 03/03/2022 13:03

As for your DD's classmates, maybe they put that school higher up their forms, say second or third option rather than fourth (if it wasn't their first option).

That makes no difference at all @ChicCroissant. The pricess is blind to preference order unless multiple prefs can offer a place. Dw op that's not why your dd hasn't been offered a place.

Comefromaway · 03/03/2022 13:02

Putting the school higher up on the form makes no difference when it comes to getting a place as it is equal preference.

clary · 03/03/2022 13:01

So your offered school is actually nearer than your choice 4 which makes more sense. I imagine your dd's classmates live nearer it than you.

Yy I would find out from the LEA what the furthest distance offered was. Presumably less than 0.7m. If it is greater, probe that as a mistake may have been made. If it is less, hold out for a WL place - sounds like you are very close so may be lucky, esp if a lot of parents pick private schools in your area.

ChicCroissant · 03/03/2022 12:59

By 'higher preference' I think they just mean that was your first choice - say you can put down 5 school on the form and you get offers from 4 of them, the Council will put you down for the school that was highest on your form.

As for your DD's classmates, maybe they put that school higher up their forms, say second or third option rather than fourth (if it wasn't their first option).

See if your council has the admissions day statistics on their website which will give you the numbers from last year - ours shows the number of first preferences for each school and the total number of preferences.

ChildOfFriday · 03/03/2022 12:43

@HannahTone It sounds like good news that those close to you have been offered places at the schools, as this hopefully means that you only just missed out on distance and will be high on the waiting lists. Did you apply to the school that is 1.2 miles away that others have places at? If your 4th choice is 0.7 miles away and was able to offer places as far out as this, then it wouldn't have mattered that you have another school that you didn't apply to that is closer at 0.6 miles (if I have understood you correctly there). You will only have been offered a school not on your preference list if none of those you listed were able to offer you places (so if the distance your 4th choice was able to offer to was less than the 0.7 miles you live from it). If this isn't the case, then a mistake may have been made (which is rare but can happen).

I think some LEAs put up on their website the admissions category/distance that each school was able to offer to, so it may be worth having a scour of their website and seeing if you can find it. If not, I'd try ringing them again (and hoping you get someone different!) and asking this information, as well as the distance that you have been measured at for each school, and check that they sound sensible. Please correct me if this isn't good advice though!

HannahTone · 03/03/2022 12:27

@ChildOfFriday
I'm sorry if this sounds like a dumb question, but how do I find out whether a mistake has been made? And how do I correct it?

The council have not given us any further information as to why they didnt give us an offer for our choices, nor which of the admission criterias we didnt pass for, so we have really no clue as to why our options were rejected!

OP posts: