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Original poster

DD didn't get into any of our school preferences - any options?

86 replies

HannahTone · 03/03/2022 11:05

We live in an area with really low performing schools, so after having checked the preferences list and admission criteria, we put the further schools as our top 3 choices because we really did not want DD to end up into one of the school nearby, as we heard lots of nasty rumours about them, but then added them in the last 3 choices just so if nothing else, she does get accepted into the more reasonable ones near our house.

However, on offer day, we got rejected out of all our preferences and DD got put into one of the most low performing schools which are even further away than the nearby school I put in number 4.

Now, I just contacted the council and the lady was really rude and just told me to wait till 21st March when the waiting lists will be out and that she will be put on waiting lists for all 6 schools, but given higher preference for the first school. I'm not even sure she knew what she was talking about tbh, but realistically I dont think she'll get the 1st school choice, so I was thinking of getting her to higher preference to the more reasonable school near to us, but I dont know if I can do that?

Has anyone been in a similar situation, do you think I could do that, or does that seem like an impossible thing to do? Please help a struggling mum!

OP posts:
Schoolchoicesucks · 03/03/2022 22:54

You need to read the oversubscription criteria for school 4.

For example, do they give preference to siblings, or those who provide evidence of a religious affiliation, or live within a priority area, or have a music or language or sports ability.

Or is it just based on distance?

It's irrelevant how close friends live to other schools. If they live closer to school 4 than you, or they are in a higher priority category, they will get a place ahead of your dc. If they live further away and aren't in a higher priority category than you, that would suggest something had gone wrong.

It sounds as though you are on the waiting list automatically. By 21st March, some people will have declined places at school 4 - so you may be offered a place, or at least be able to find where on the waiting list you are.

There's a long way between now and September and lists can move a fair bit.

Do accept the place you've been offered though - otherwise the LA has no obligation to offer a place.

PanelChair · 03/03/2022 22:44

And yes, there are a lot of people working in schools who don’t understand the admissions process and give out some very poor advice.

PanelChair · 03/03/2022 22:42

The “you need to put us first” advice could be correct, in the situation that you meet the oversubscription criteria for more than one school. Only the offer from your highest preference school will be passed on, so if you qualify for schools 1, 2 and 5 you will only receive the offer for school 1. But (obviously) that is a million miles from saying that placing a school first on your list will boost your chances of getting a place or guarantee that you do.

ChildOfFriday · 03/03/2022 22:41

@Jijithecat

That's interesting. I'm almost certain that a headteacher told us on a school tour about five years ago, that if we thought we would like a place at the school for our child we would have to put it as our first choice in order to get a place. Now I know different. Thanks for setting me straight!
Unfortunately this sort of thing is common. They are either mistaken, or what they are trying to get across is that you need to put the school above closer schools to stand a chance of getting a place (e.g. if it's your favourite school but is quite far away/selective/etc and you 'play it safe' by putting your catchment school first and this school second, what you are actually saying is that you prefer your catchment school, so that will be the one you are offered if there is a place there, not the one you actually want). It is often not communicated well though and is interpreted by some as "this school fills up with people who put it first". The 'first preference first' system is still a widely held misconception unfortunately.
Jijithecat · 03/03/2022 22:25

That's interesting. I'm almost certain that a headteacher told us on a school tour about five years ago, that if we thought we would like a place at the school for our child we would have to put it as our first choice in order to get a place. Now I know different. Thanks for setting me straight!

Crockof · 03/03/2022 21:14

As above can you find out how the places were allocated?

Phormiumjester · 03/03/2022 21:08

You have my sympathy. We didn't get any of our 3 choices either. (We only get 3)
We are in the catchment for all the schools and meet the criteria but can only assume all are oversubscribed. We've ended up with a school that would mean driving past all the other 3 (within 2 miles) to get to. There aren't any in the county the other direction as we're just in the border.

The ones we've got is in special measures. Son heartbroken. Have registered for waiting lists and will appeal until I'm hoarse.

prh47bridge · 03/03/2022 20:41

@Jijithecat

Out of interest does anyone know what year the Equal Preference System was introduced?
It became compulsory in 2007 but many LAs were using it before then.
Lougle · 03/03/2022 19:59

The equal preference scheme means that all applicants are treated as if they have put each school on their list as first choice.

All the pupils who have a school on their list are ranked in order of how they meet the admissions criteria. This happens for all the schools.

Some children will meet the criteria very well for several schools. Say child A qualifies for 4 schools. They get allocated their first choice and their name is removed from all the other lists. Every child below them is bumped up one place because they aren't on the list any more.

This process of allocating places and shuffling lists goes on and on until each school has reached their PAN, ensuring that each child is only offered one place.

Any child who was not offered their first choice school is put on the waiting list for the other schools, ensuring that the list is in order of how well they meet the criteria.

Things can go wrong. If a distance is calculated incorrectly, or a sibling link or feeder school isn't registered, it can put a child far further down the list than they should have been. So it is worth checking carefully.

ufucoffee · 03/03/2022 19:56

The equal preference system will be explained on the school admissions part of the website of each local authority.

ChildOfFriday · 03/03/2022 19:53

I think I've just seen a copy of the admissions code from 2006 that states that 'first preference first' could still be used (if I've understood it correctly). I think if I had to put an approximate date on when equal preference became law across the country I'd go for around 2009/2010 but very prepared to be corrected there!

lanthanum · 03/03/2022 19:52

Bear in mind that in the next little while, some people will be declining the places they have been offered because their child has a place at a private school. That might be even more likely for those offered the weaker schools, who might have applied for private in case they didn't get into their first choice. So I think a lot of the reason you are told to sit tight for a couple of weeks is that as those children are taken off the lists, there will be quite a bit of movement.

If there are children in the same category as you who don't live much nearer, you may be quite near the top of the waiting list, and may well get offered a place soon.

ChildOfFriday · 03/03/2022 19:48

@Jijithecat

Out of interest does anyone know what year the Equal Preference System was introduced?
In the area I grew up in (Birmingham), it was brought in for the year that I started secondary school (so entry in 2003). It wasn't law across the country then though, and some areas were still using the first preference first system.
PanelChair · 03/03/2022 19:45

I’ve been involved in school appeals for a very long time and don’t remember a time when it didn’t apply.

Jijithecat · 03/03/2022 19:41

Out of interest does anyone know what year the Equal Preference System was introduced?

PanelChair · 03/03/2022 19:30

Please, readers, disregard Lily737’s posts. They are wrong on nearly every point.

boyblue · 03/03/2022 19:14

@Lily737

You can't compare how far your dd's friends live from the school as that's not how it works. For them they could have put the school as their first choice. The way it is done is that all who put a school as their first choice are ranked and the number of places they have are given out to the same number of children in order of ranking. Then the ones who dont get in are looked at by the second school and so on. Each school takes children in the same way so a child who has the school listed 4th will be "overtaken" by those who place it higher. Hence the need to order your choices with care. (This isn't not how it literally happens if course - the computer works it out. The schools just wait for their pupil lists.)
This is exactly how it does NOT happen. The order you put your preferences only counts if you are eligible for more than one school on your list in accordance to the school admissions criteria. If you don't qualify, you aren't offered a place regardless. Equal Preference System.
WaterTheBasil · 03/03/2022 19:07

@Lily737 must have had a head bump today as she is talking jibberish at every turn. Sad

titchy · 03/03/2022 19:05

@Lily737

It's not really worth contacting the schools. The process is the process and it takes a while to finalise everyone's place. Some schools may suggest you appeal but they are very unlikely to work as you require a very unusual circumstance - not distance from a school or your personal preferences.

I'm not being unkind it's just how it is. I work in a primary and every year we have children who wait for a place, even well towards the end of the summer term.

You don't need an unusual circumstance to succeed at appeal. You simply need to demonstrate that the disadvantage to the school of taking your child as an extra is not as great as the disadvantage to your child of not being admitted.

I hope you don't advise any of the parents in the school you work in Hmm

Crockof · 03/03/2022 19:02

@Lily737

It's not really worth contacting the schools. The process is the process and it takes a while to finalise everyone's place. Some schools may suggest you appeal but they are very unlikely to work as you require a very unusual circumstance - not distance from a school or your personal preferences.

I'm not being unkind it's just how it is. I work in a primary and every year we have children who wait for a place, even well towards the end of the summer term.

Lots of appeals are successful as the LA don't follow their own admissions criteria and it is worth checking you are on the waiting list (if schools hold the waiting list)
Lily737 · 03/03/2022 19:01

Also your dd may need to take the place at the school.you do have and then stay on the waiting list into year 7. Then either she might settle in well or you wait for the chance for a place at another school.

Lily737 · 03/03/2022 18:59

It's not really worth contacting the schools. The process is the process and it takes a while to finalise everyone's place. Some schools may suggest you appeal but they are very unlikely to work as you require a very unusual circumstance - not distance from a school or your personal preferences.

I'm not being unkind it's just how it is. I work in a primary and every year we have children who wait for a place, even well towards the end of the summer term.

Crockof · 03/03/2022 18:54

@Lily737

You can't compare how far your dd's friends live from the school as that's not how it works. For them they could have put the school as their first choice. The way it is done is that all who put a school as their first choice are ranked and the number of places they have are given out to the same number of children in order of ranking. Then the ones who dont get in are looked at by the second school and so on. Each school takes children in the same way so a child who has the school listed 4th will be "overtaken" by those who place it higher. Hence the need to order your choices with care. (This isn't not how it literally happens if course - the computer works it out. The schools just wait for their pupil lists.)
No this isn't correct. School places are not allocated on preference, they are allocated on admissions policy and then preference is taken into account. You are advised to put a school you are likely to get into in your list, otherwise you could be allocated a school any where.
ChildOfFriday · 03/03/2022 18:52

@Jijithecat

OP have you read the secondary schools admissions process on your county council website? It should detail the admissions criteria for schools, have a distance calculator and show you how places were allocated in previous years.
I don't think all do this unfortunately, though some do. OP, if you are comfortable posting the name of your LEA, posters on here may be able to have a look for you and help you find any admissions information that has been published.
ChildOfFriday · 03/03/2022 18:49

@Lily737

You can't compare how far your dd's friends live from the school as that's not how it works. For them they could have put the school as their first choice. The way it is done is that all who put a school as their first choice are ranked and the number of places they have are given out to the same number of children in order of ranking. Then the ones who dont get in are looked at by the second school and so on. Each school takes children in the same way so a child who has the school listed 4th will be "overtaken" by those who place it higher. Hence the need to order your choices with care. (This isn't not how it literally happens if course - the computer works it out. The schools just wait for their pupil lists.)
No no no no no this is not how it works! Schools do not give priority to people who put them first, and putting the closest school first would have given the OP no advantage whatsoever in getting in. As explained many times on this thread, the equal preference system is law across England and has been for many years.